|
|
Post by snyder55 on Oct 3, 2020 15:15:44 GMT -5
I agree. No team has ever screwed any player, which has always been my point. That's only become a made up thing with this generation. Remember all those articles crying about how the Dolphins wasted Marino's career or Jacksonville wasted MJD's? Yeah, me neither because it's not a thing. It's just something whiny non athletes say. Then they spend four hours a day talking about it on their podcast to other non athletes. I agree but the point was he is always bring up how much Eli made and in the discussion at hand it didn't have a damn thing to do with it. if you are referring to my bringing up the money Eli made as a Giant I do that just to show that Eli was done at the time and we just kept throwing more money at him and it was money that would have been much better spent trying to improve the team, I don't blame Eli for taking it because he would have been dumb not to but it was not in the best interest of the team to do it, that's my whole point in having that opinion.. |
|
|
|
Post by GameTime on Oct 3, 2020 15:21:00 GMT -5
many of the same reason/excuses I guess. But Jones' story is not written yet. Its only in the beginning of chapter two. I am down on Jones but I think how down I am on the Giants isn’t really letting g me be rational about it. I am aware of the good tools he has but since he plays for us I am expecting it to go to ish. Before these three games I had a lot of confidence he'd make progress. After these 3 I'm down a bit on him as well. But rationally I need to give him the rest of the season. I mean its only the 17 the game right? The kid has a lot of pressure to carry the offense. So if he gets through this and makes good progress he'll be that much better for it |
|
|
|
Post by snyder55 on Oct 3, 2020 15:28:22 GMT -5
if you are referring to my bringing up the money Eli made as a Giant I do that just to show that Eli was done at the time and we just kept throwing more money at him and it was money that would have been much better spent trying to improve the team, I don't blame Eli for taking it because he would have been dumb not to but it was not in the best interest of the team to do it, that's my whole point in having that opinion.. No we weren't throwing money at him , he was under contract and never asked for anymore money and Eli's earnings have nothing to do with the way he was playing and was not part of the discussion. what year are you referring to and how do you know what Eli's agent asked for.... |
|
|
|
Post by Speedman on Oct 3, 2020 15:32:44 GMT -5
I rarely watch football other than the Giants so I don’t know if Flowers played well or not for the other teams. I was just going by the other teams not signing him after one year. Maybe they tried and couldn't come to an agreement. Possibly |
|
|
|
Post by Speedman on Oct 3, 2020 15:34:20 GMT -5
I rarely watch football other than the Giants so I don’t know if Flowers played well or not for the other teams. I was just going by the other teams not signing him after one year. He didn’t get moved to guard until he was with the Redskins. That’s when things turned for him. He’s not a superstar at guard, but he at least plays up to the level of a capable NFL starter. He was a mess at tackle He was a mess at tackle. |
|
|
|
Post by Speedman on Oct 3, 2020 15:38:39 GMT -5
I agree but the point was he is always bring up how much Eli made and in the discussion at hand it didn't have a damn thing to do with it. if you are referring to my bringing up the money Eli made as a Giant I do that just to show that Eli was done at the time and we just kept throwing more money at him and it was money that would have been much better spent trying to improve the team, I don't blame Eli for taking it because he would have been dumb not to but it was not in the best interest of the team to do it, that's my whole point in having that opinion.. What years are you talking about throwing money at Eli that they shouldn’t have? If they didn’t pay Eli those years who would have played QB? |
|
|
|
Post by Morehead State on Oct 3, 2020 17:07:52 GMT -5
if you are referring to my bringing up the money Eli made as a Giant I do that just to show that Eli was done at the time and we just kept throwing more money at him and it was money that would have been much better spent trying to improve the team, I don't blame Eli for taking it because he would have been dumb not to but it was not in the best interest of the team to do it, that's my whole point in having that opinion.. What years are you talking about throwing money at Eli that they shouldn’t have? If they didn’t pay Eli those years who would have played QB? It's hard to defend the decision of holding onto Eli after the 2017 season. His record since then was 6-14. Since he was reinstated after the benching that record is 7-17. We should have cut the cord and let him go after the benching in 2017. THAT was the time to make that decision and start the rebuild from there. Instead Dave tried to "win with Eli" in 2018 and that was a huge mistake. Throwing money at Nate Solder, giving up picks and paying a huge salary for Ogeltree, drafting a RB with the 2nd pick.....all poor decisions based on the mistaken notion that we were ready to win in 2018.
Eli was done. he was a shell of his former self. So who should have played QB? Whoever good scouting would have produced. Looking back...that was probably Josh Allen.
|
|
|
|
Post by Speedman on Oct 3, 2020 17:24:24 GMT -5
What years are you talking about throwing money at Eli that they shouldn’t have? If they didn’t pay Eli those years who would have played QB? It's hard to defend the decision of holding onto Eli after the 2017 season. His record since then was 6-14. Since he was reinstated after the benching that record is 7-17. We should have cut the cord and let him go after the benching in 2017. THAT was the time to make that decision and start the rebuild from there. Instead Dave tried to "win with Eli" in 2018 and that was a huge mistake. Throwing money at Nate Solder, giving up picks and paying a huge salary for Ogeltree, drafting a RB with the 2nd pick.....all poor decisions based on the mistaken notion that we were ready to win in 2018.
Eli was done. he was a shell of his former self. So who should have played QB? Whoever good scouting would have produced. Looking back...that was probably Josh Allen.
You mention record as if it is not a team sport. The whole team sucked. That’s why they don’t have a better record with Jones or they wouldn’t have a better record with Allen. I believe DG would have made the same moves even if Eli wasn’t on the team. |
|
|
|
Post by jaxnygmen on Oct 3, 2020 17:25:08 GMT -5
And Flowers? Turned out to be pretty goodjust not on our team. LOL, BS. He has bounced around to several teams and he is now playing guard. Very few Giants OL heading to other teams have been good. Weston Richburg might be the only one more recently. |
|
|
|
Post by Morehead State on Oct 3, 2020 18:03:33 GMT -5
It's hard to defend the decision of holding onto Eli after the 2017 season. His record since then was 6-14. Since he was reinstated after the benching that record is 7-17. We should have cut the cord and let him go after the benching in 2017. THAT was the time to make that decision and start the rebuild from there. Instead Dave tried to "win with Eli" in 2018 and that was a huge mistake. Throwing money at Nate Solder, giving up picks and paying a huge salary for Ogeltree, drafting a RB with the 2nd pick.....all poor decisions based on the mistaken notion that we were ready to win in 2018.
Eli was done. he was a shell of his former self. So who should have played QB? Whoever good scouting would have produced. Looking back...that was probably Josh Allen.
You mention record as if it is not a team sport. The whole team sucked. That’s why they don’t have a better record with Jones or they wouldn’t have a better record with Allen. I believe DG would have made the same moves even if Eli wasn’t on the team. You're right. My contention is that we couldn't win with Eli. Now, with the benefit of hind sight, we clearly couldn't. It's a team sport as you say...but the QB is the player with the most control over wins and losses.
So if you knew we would be 7-17 with Eli, would have still argued that he should remain on the team? If so.. Why? what would be the point? We were a failing team in dire need of a total rebuild.
And you mention that we are just as bad with Daniel Jones. Jones is still an untested young QB. He's not nearly a complete NFL QB yet. When you suggest that we aren't any better with an untested, unproven rookie QB, that is hardly an endorsement of Eli.
My point is that we needed to rebuild starting in 2018. We had a huge chunk of draft capital in 2018 and we blew it on a RB. A FRIGGIN' RB!
So I don't "blame" our woes on Eli Manning in 2017 and 2018. I am saying we couldn't win with him. THAT was the time we needed to rip the band aid off. Of course the mob had different ideas as we saw. As Floyd Reese said......"if you listen to the fans you are destined to be sitting with them".
|
|
|
|
Post by NAVY2323(ret) on Oct 3, 2020 19:00:58 GMT -5
You mention record as if it is not a team sport. The whole team sucked. That’s why they don’t have a better record with Jones or they wouldn’t have a better record with Allen. I believe DG would have made the same moves even if Eli wasn’t on the team. You're right. My contention is that we couldn't win with Eli. Now, with the benefit of hind sight, we clearly couldn't. It's a team sport as you say...but the QB is the player with the most control over wins and losses.
So if you knew we would be 7-17 with Eli, would have still argued that he should remain on the team? If so.. Why? what would be the point? We were a failing team in dire need of a total rebuild.
And you mention that we are just as bad with Daniel Jones. Jones is still an untested young QB. He's not nearly a complete NFL QB yet. When you suggest that we aren't any better with an untested, unproven rookie QB, that is hardly an endorsement of Eli.
My point is that we needed to rebuild starting in 2018. We had a huge chunk of draft capital in 2018 and we blew it on a RB. A FRIGGIN' RB!
So I don't "blame" our woes on Eli Manning in 2017 and 2018. I am saying we couldn't win with him. THAT was the time we needed to rip the band aid off. Of course the mob had different ideas as we saw. As Floyd Reese said......"if you listen to the fans you are destined to be sitting with them".
You know what’s interesting if you look through the right spectrum about Phil vs Eli it’s a huge factor that Phil was continually surrounded by well built football teams. You could never say that about Eli for the last 8 years of his career. Simms played behind good lines, had good running games, had good defense on the other side of the ball and good coaching. What did Eli have. A bunch of shit is what. One prima Donna excellent receiver. Name something else he had going for him. Now think of Giants teams from 85-93. |
|
|
|
Post by Speedman on Oct 3, 2020 19:44:58 GMT -5
You mention record as if it is not a team sport. The whole team sucked. That’s why they don’t have a better record with Jones or they wouldn’t have a better record with Allen. I believe DG would have made the same moves even if Eli wasn’t on the team. You're right. My contention is that we couldn't win with Eli. Now, with the benefit of hind sight, we clearly couldn't. It's a team sport as you say...but the QB is the player with the most control over wins and losses.
So if you knew we would be 7-17 with Eli, would have still argued that he should remain on the team? If so.. Why? what would be the point? We were a failing team in dire need of a total rebuild.
And you mention that we are just as bad with Daniel Jones. Jones is still an untested young QB. He's not nearly a complete NFL QB yet. When you suggest that we aren't any better with an untested, unproven rookie QB, that is hardly an endorsement of Eli.
My point is that we needed to rebuild starting in 2018. We had a huge chunk of draft capital in 2018 and we blew it on a RB. A FRIGGIN' RB!
So I don't "blame" our woes on Eli Manning in 2017 and 2018. I am saying we couldn't win with him. THAT was the time we needed to rip the band aid off. Of course the mob had different ideas as we saw. As Floyd Reese said......"if you listen to the fans you are destined to be sitting with them".
It’s not just the QB it’s the whole team. In 5 years if Jones still has this lousy OL and pathetic defense he is not going to win many games. I don’t think DG would have made any different moves if Eli was not on the team. The band aid was ripped off last year and the team still sucks. |
|
|
|
Post by TCHOF on Oct 3, 2020 19:59:37 GMT -5
You mention record as if it is not a team sport. The whole team sucked. That’s why they don’t have a better record with Jones or they wouldn’t have a better record with Allen. I believe DG would have made the same moves even if Eli wasn’t on the team. You're right. My contention is that we couldn't win with Eli. Now, with the benefit of hind sight, we clearly couldn't. It's a team sport as you say...but the QB is the player with the most control over wins and losses.
So if you knew we would be 7-17 with Eli, would have still argued that he should remain on the team? If so.. Why? what would be the point? We were a failing team in dire need of a total rebuild.
And you mention that we are just as bad with Daniel Jones. Jones is still an untested young QB. He's not nearly a complete NFL QB yet. When you suggest that we aren't any better with an untested, unproven rookie QB, that is hardly an endorsement of Eli.
My point is that we needed to rebuild starting in 2018. We had a huge chunk of draft capital in 2018 and we blew it on a RB. A FRIGGIN' RB!
So I don't "blame" our woes on Eli Manning in 2017 and 2018. I am saying we couldn't win with him. THAT was the time we needed to rip the band aid off. Of course the mob had different ideas as we saw. As Floyd Reese said......"if you listen to the fans you are destined to be sitting with them".
Spot on |
|
|
|
Post by Morehead State on Oct 3, 2020 23:53:04 GMT -5
You're right. My contention is that we couldn't win with Eli. Now, with the benefit of hind sight, we clearly couldn't. It's a team sport as you say...but the QB is the player with the most control over wins and losses.
So if you knew we would be 7-17 with Eli, would have still argued that he should remain on the team? If so.. Why? what would be the point? We were a failing team in dire need of a total rebuild.
And you mention that we are just as bad with Daniel Jones. Jones is still an untested young QB. He's not nearly a complete NFL QB yet. When you suggest that we aren't any better with an untested, unproven rookie QB, that is hardly an endorsement of Eli.
My point is that we needed to rebuild starting in 2018. We had a huge chunk of draft capital in 2018 and we blew it on a RB. A FRIGGIN' RB!
So I don't "blame" our woes on Eli Manning in 2017 and 2018. I am saying we couldn't win with him. THAT was the time we needed to rip the band aid off. Of course the mob had different ideas as we saw. As Floyd Reese said......"if you listen to the fans you are destined to be sitting with them".
It’s not just the QB it’s the whole team. In 5 years if Jones still has this lousy OL and pathetic defense he is not going to win many games. I don’t think DG would have made any different moves if Eli was not on the team. The band aid was ripped off last year and the team still sucks. The sooner the band aids comes off, the sooner we start our rebuild. We wasted a whole season...and then some. Ripping the band aid off doesn't immediately improve the team. It begins the rebuild.
|
|
|
|
Post by Speedman on Oct 4, 2020 6:47:34 GMT -5
It’s not just the QB it’s the whole team. In 5 years if Jones still has this lousy OL and pathetic defense he is not going to win many games. I don’t think DG would have made any different moves if Eli was not on the team. The band aid was ripped off last year and the team still sucks. The sooner the band aids comes off, the sooner we start our rebuild. We wasted a whole season...and then some. Ripping the band aid off doesn't immediately improve the team. It begins the rebuild.
The rebuild is not going so well. You would love to blame Eli for the situation that the Giants are in. Of course you are wrong. It’s the lousy drafts and free agent moves that have taken place for years. |
|
|
|
Post by TCHOF on Oct 4, 2020 7:30:50 GMT -5
The rebuild is not going so well. You would love to blame Eli for the situation that the Giants are in. Of course you are wrong. It’s the lousy drafts and free agent moves that have taken place for years. Rebuild just began . It will take time and alot longer if the fan base has anything to say about it. Firing everyone every year doesn't work. (see the Browns) This is Gettleman’s third season. If it continues to go like this, it will be his last. Are you going to guarantee that he stays? Your Schurmur guarantee didn’t work out so well. |
|
|
|
Post by snyder55 on Oct 4, 2020 8:30:20 GMT -5
what year are you referring to and how do you know what Eli's agent asked for.... seriously, just stop.  ? |
|
|
|
Post by Morehead State on Oct 4, 2020 8:51:06 GMT -5
The sooner the band aids comes off, the sooner we start our rebuild. We wasted a whole season...and then some. Ripping the band aid off doesn't immediately improve the team. It begins the rebuild.
The rebuild is not going so well. You would love to blame Eli for the situation that the Giants are in. Of course you are wrong. It’s the lousy drafts and free agent moves that have taken place for years. The rebuild is going poorly. It is because our GM doesn't know how to build a football team in today's NFL.
None of that has anything to do with Eli Manning.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2020 12:23:58 GMT -5
The rebuild is not going so well. You would love to blame Eli for the situation that the Giants are in. Of course you are wrong. It’s the lousy drafts and free agent moves that have taken place for years. The rebuild is going poorly. It is because our GM doesn't know how to build a football team in today's NFL.
None of that has anything to do with Eli Manning.
Especially starting a rebuild with a RB when we had no line, then following it up with a huge huge reach for QB. Finally Year 3 he made a smart first round pick BUT that’s two awful picks in 3 years. You can’t have that |
|
|
|
Post by Blue Hulk on Oct 4, 2020 14:37:51 GMT -5
Bring TC in to consult
|
|
|
|
Post by Jomo on Oct 4, 2020 15:26:05 GMT -5
Ahh the good old days
|
|
coughlinscorner
Special Teams
Gooble Gobble We Accept Her One of Us
Posts: 854
|
Post by coughlinscorner on Oct 4, 2020 17:32:38 GMT -5
Parcells too. Lets dig up George Young's grave too. |
|
gumby
Special Teams
Posts: 1,048
|
Post by gumby on Oct 4, 2020 22:40:42 GMT -5
The rebuild is not going so well. You would love to blame Eli for the situation that the Giants are in. Of course you are wrong. It’s the lousy drafts and free agent moves that have taken place for years. Rebuild just began . It will take time and alot longer if the fan base has anything to say about it. Firing everyone every year doesn't work. (see the Browns) I'd agree, but the problem is that this guy has no direction. He does stuff that just doesn't make sense. I can accept trying but failing, but this guy ... it's like he's not even trying. |
|
|
|
Post by DandyDon on Oct 4, 2020 22:47:15 GMT -5
Rebuild just began . It will take time and alot longer if the fan base has anything to say about it. Firing everyone every year doesn't work. (see the Browns) I'd agree, but the problem is that this guy has no direction. He does stuff that just doesn't make sense. I can accept trying but failing, but this guy ... it's like he's not even trying. Who's "this guy?" |
|
|
|
Post by houndstoothhat on Oct 5, 2020 12:00:05 GMT -5
Some were blaming Eli. others were blaming TC, I was blaming JR lol. All of them gone and deep problems remain. I do think that the OL sets the tone for everything. If they win their physical battles, that controls the clock and more good things than bad usually follow. I track the demise of this team back to the aging out of our last really good OL. We knew it was coming. Most of them were of similar ages and yet...... We failed to get ahead of it and the few high picks we used on the OL ALL turned out to be duds or worse. Beatty.....good at best but injured a lot and couldn't move a defender back if his life depended on it. 3rd and short we are not running to the left. Pugh.........more worthy of a mid round pick and an underwhelming Giant. Richburg, same as Pugh only injured more. Flowers.....horrendous. Meanwhile, mid-round picks and FA, UDFA all flopped. You can't screw up that many top picks on one unit and expect to be competitive. And so, here we are. Same ole, same ole.... On top of this we have some who think that SB was a smart draft pick! Someone, please explain it to me! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2020 12:04:00 GMT -5
Rebuild just began . It will take time and alot longer if the fan base has anything to say about it. Firing everyone every year doesn't work. (see the Browns) I'd agree, but the problem is that this guy has no direction. He does stuff that just doesn't make sense. I can accept trying but failing, but this guy ... it's like he's not even trying. Looks more like he is trying to get the 1st pick before they fire him.. |
|
gumby
Special Teams
Posts: 1,048
|
Post by gumby on Oct 11, 2020 17:53:58 GMT -5
I'd agree, but the problem is that this guy has no direction. He does stuff that just doesn't make sense. I can accept trying but failing, but this guy ... it's like he's not even trying. Who's "this guy?" The current GM. |
|
