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Post by FundamentallySoundJones on Sept 30, 2020 16:22:11 GMT -5
If only we had moved on from him in 2006 like you wanted to. Well, I'm sure the Bills will bring in some competition to push Allen starting next year. They can't be happy with the constant turnovers. And all teams do that all the time with their QBs. Get 4 or 5 top QBs to come in and push the highest priced player on the roster every year. Remember how Rothlisberger almost didn't beat out that awesome back up from a few years ago? Yeah. Me neither, but that one just never gets old. Allen didnt need 30 starts to get going, so no need to bring in a QB to push him , but meanwhile on the messageboard some ppl are talking about drafting a qb when we just got one last year.
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Post by cruzsoldier on Sept 30, 2020 23:04:49 GMT -5
I dont think we blamed Eli for a last place defense. However Eli was done in 2017 but fans took time to catch on to that. Your being generous Eli was done after 2016 but a lot of excuses were made for him.
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Post by Sarcasman on Oct 1, 2020 1:49:28 GMT -5
I dont think we blamed Eli for a last place defense. However Eli was done in 2017 but fans took time to catch on to that. Your being generous Eli was done after 2016 but a lot of excuses were made for him. True. I don't see any need to make any excuses for guy that brought us two championships. I should probably talk to to all the other Giants QBs that did that.
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Post by PennState1 on Oct 1, 2020 15:53:15 GMT -5
Some were blaming Eli. others were blaming TC, I was blaming JR lol. All of them gone and deep problems remain. I do think that the OL sets the tone for everything. If they win their physical battles, that controls the clock and more good things than bad usually follow. I track the demise of this team back to the aging out of our last really good OL. We knew it was coming. Most of them were of similar ages and yet...... We failed to get ahead of it and the few high picks we used on the OL ALL turned out to be duds or worse. Beatty.....good at best but injured a lot and couldn't move a defender back if his life depended on it. 3rd and short we are not running to the left. Pugh.........more worthy of a mid round pick and an underwhelming Giant. Richburg, same as Pugh only injured more. Flowers.....horrendous. Meanwhile, mid-round picks and FA, UDFA all flopped. You can't screw up that many top picks on one unit and expect to be competitive. And so, here we are. Same ole, same ole.... And that sums it up, including many (not all) of Barkley’s perceived Weaknesses.
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Post by PennState1 on Oct 1, 2020 15:54:52 GMT -5
If Pulley was at least average you would have an argument. He got beat out by a guard and may even be the backup to another guard (Lemieux) Right??? How disgusting is that? We have a Tackle playing Center!!! Center, the one position on the line where experience is CRITICAL.
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Post by snyder55 on Oct 1, 2020 16:19:36 GMT -5
I hope not I think they need weapons now and hope as I said that OL comes together.
How many years do you think it should take before we start seeing some respectable football week in and week out?
Seems to me Gettleman got this all wrong.
He tried to get one more run with Eli and failed.
He ignored positional value by drafting Saquon and then drafted Jones based on positional value the next year.
Who has Dave drafted with the Giants that looks to be a stand out player? Certainly not Hernandez, BJ Hill, Baker or Beal.
I hope I'm wrong, but right not it's tough to feel good about the future of this team.
I think the team made a mistake trying to keep Eli one more year and that decision set us back at least 2 or more years..
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Post by Roosevelt on Oct 1, 2020 18:58:02 GMT -5
How many years do you think it should take before we start seeing some respectable football week in and week out?
Seems to me Gettleman got this all wrong.
He tried to get one more run with Eli and failed.
He ignored positional value by drafting Saquon and then drafted Jones based on positional value the next year.
Who has Dave drafted with the Giants that looks to be a stand out player? Certainly not Hernandez, BJ Hill, Baker or Beal.
I hope I'm wrong, but right not it's tough to feel good about the future of this team.
I think the team made a mistake trying to keep Eli one more year and that decision set us back at least 2 or more years.. In hindsight I absolutely agree.
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Post by Sarcasman on Oct 1, 2020 19:06:18 GMT -5
How many years do you think it should take before we start seeing some respectable football week in and week out?
Seems to me Gettleman got this all wrong.
He tried to get one more run with Eli and failed.
He ignored positional value by drafting Saquon and then drafted Jones based on positional value the next year.
Who has Dave drafted with the Giants that looks to be a stand out player? Certainly not Hernandez, BJ Hill, Baker or Beal.
I hope I'm wrong, but right not it's tough to feel good about the future of this team.
I think the team made a mistake trying to keep Eli one more year and that decision set us back at least 2 or more years.. I agree they kept him too long, but I'm struggling to quantify how that then set the team back two years. When this all started I recall saying that I thought the team would be competitive and good in 2020. That sure ain't happening but I don't see how to account for the two years. Are you saying you thought the team would be good by 2018? Or that it still just feels like the team is three years way from being competitive?
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Helmet
Special Teams
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Post by Helmet on Oct 1, 2020 19:29:44 GMT -5
Some were blaming Eli. others were blaming TC, I was blaming JR lol. All of them gone and deep problems remain. I do think that the OL sets the tone for everything. If they win their physical battles, that controls the clock and more good things than bad usually follow. I track the demise of this team back to the aging out of our last really good OL. We knew it was coming. Most of them were of similar ages and yet...... We failed to get ahead of it and the few high picks we used on the OL ALL turned out to be duds or worse. Beatty.....good at best but injured a lot and couldn't move a defender back if his life depended on it. 3rd and short we are not running to the left. Pugh.........more worthy of a mid round pick and an underwhelming Giant. Richburg, same as Pugh only injured more. Flowers.....horrendous. Meanwhile, mid-round picks and FA, UDFA all flopped. You can't screw up that many top picks on one unit and expect to be competitive. And so, here we are. Same ole, same ole.... I’d argue the D line too. We’ve lost the game in the trenches on both sides of the ball since that last super bowl run... or maybe 2012.
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Helmet
Special Teams
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Post by Helmet on Oct 1, 2020 19:37:15 GMT -5
We have a new QB to blame now. And right now, he can’t hold onto the football to save his life. Also, we have some down right liars or memory loss here. A lot of us, including myself blamed Eli. You want to know why? Because it was easy. He was the face of the franchise, he had some games where you wanted to throw a television at him. Like when he threw left handed to Chris Snee. He played guard if some of you forgot. But, now that Eli is retired he’s revered and held very highly by the fan base. all true. But Eli was best when he was aggressive. You took the bad with the good. Trying to convert him into a west coast qb was a giant waste of time. One blunder in the front office after the next. Fire gilbride fire coughlin etc etc. How about: fix your damn line! Don’t draft a running back with the number 2 pick of the draft if he doesn’t have anyone to block! Too many holes on the roster, just a poorly run team that can’t get out of its own way these last eight years.
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gumby
Special Teams
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Post by gumby on Oct 1, 2020 22:16:02 GMT -5
Wasn't crazy about Eli as a player. Inconsistent and inaccurate with high highs and low lows.
That being said, i never "blamed" him. I just thought he wasn't as good as his peers.
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gumby
Special Teams
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Post by gumby on Oct 1, 2020 22:24:52 GMT -5
What the hell has happened to this franchise? We’re on our 2nd GM, 4th HC, and we still have an inept offensive line. GM they hired was trash. I mean, if you were being objective. The coaching firings were just scapegoats for a talent issue. Fix the GM; fix the talent issue. The Giants never "fixed" the GM issue after they fired Reese. Just downgraded. Haha. Kind of getting a kick out of this. I've said a million times, be careful what you wish for. And all those high picked OLmen that JR drafted that were supposedly terrible? They went on to start on other teams and get big contracts. And before people say, "well that's cuz everyone needs OLmen because there aren't any good ones." Well, it's all relative. If you're trash, but so is everyone else, if you get paid you gotta be pretty decent trash. Even Whimper went on to start elsewhere when he wasn't "NFL material". And Flowers? Turned out to be pretty goodjust not on our team. That's not JR's problem that we couldnt' develop him.
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Post by allnygin on Oct 1, 2020 23:53:47 GMT -5
GM they hired was trash. I mean, if you were being objective. The coaching firings were just scapegoats for a talent issue. Fix the GM; fix the talent issue. The Giants never "fixed" the GM issue after they fired Reese. Just downgraded. Haha. Kind of getting a kick out of this. I've said a million times, be careful what you wish for. And all those high picked OLmen that JR drafted that were supposedly terrible? They went on to start on other teams and get big contracts. And before people say, "well that's cuz everyone needs OLmen because there aren't any good ones." Well, it's all relative. If you're trash, but so is everyone else, if you get paid you gotta be pretty decent trash. Even Whimper went on to start elsewhere when he wasn't "NFL material". And Flowers? Turned out to be pretty goodjust not on our team. That's not JR's problem that we couldnt' develop him. Yeah I don't see it. Jerry Reese and the giants scouting team was pure trash starting right around 2011 and onward.
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Post by snyder55 on Oct 2, 2020 7:53:54 GMT -5
I think the team made a mistake trying to keep Eli one more year and that decision set us back at least 2 or more years.. I agree they kept him too long, but I'm struggling to quantify how that then set the team back two years. When this all started I recall saying that I thought the team would be competitive and good in 2020. That sure ain't happening but I don't see how to account for the two years. Are you saying you thought the team would be good by 2018? Or that it still just feels like the team is three years way from being competitive? I felt at the time we should have moved on from Eli when it becomes obvious his tank was getting empty and by staying with him and going nowhere for another season was the mistake we made, but I did understand DG trying to get one more season out of Eli, didn't work and now we are where we are....
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Post by snyder55 on Oct 2, 2020 7:55:38 GMT -5
And Flowers? Turned out to be pretty goodjust not on our team. LOL, BS. is he talking about our Flowers being pretty good, when...
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gumby
Special Teams
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Post by gumby on Oct 2, 2020 23:58:35 GMT -5
is he talking about our Flowers being pretty good, when... He just signed a 30m dollar contract or something with Miami. That's after he had a decent season with Washington. You don't 'get that if you're trash.
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gumby
Special Teams
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Post by gumby on Oct 3, 2020 0:14:14 GMT -5
Haha. Kind of getting a kick out of this. I've said a million times, be careful what you wish for. And all those high picked OLmen that JR drafted that were supposedly terrible? They went on to start on other teams and get big contracts. And before people say, "well that's cuz everyone needs OLmen because there aren't any good ones." Well, it's all relative. If you're trash, but so is everyone else, if you get paid you gotta be pretty decent trash. Even Whimper went on to start elsewhere when he wasn't "NFL material". And Flowers? Turned out to be pretty goodjust not on our team. That's not JR's problem that we couldnt' develop him. Yeah I don't see it. Jerry Reese and the giants scouting team was pure trash starting right around 2011 and onward. You can say the same about any GM. JR's problem wasn't with the high draft picks. He just couldn't hit on any of his low draft picks esp in the LB and OL positions. Pure trash? Might want to check again. Dump on Pugh, Richburg, Flowers, etc all you want but they eventually signed big contracts elsewhere. Same goes for the interior linemen that i can't for the life of me remember. Prince? Hankins? OBJ? Collins? Shepard? But low round draft picks? Ouch. If you think he's trash though you might want to look around. There are a lot of "trash" GMs out there. We got what we asked for, and it's even worse.
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Post by nick030567 on Oct 3, 2020 6:35:38 GMT -5
I don't see how a QB delays the rebuild of every other personnel group, especially when they tried rebuilding those groups (DL and OL) since 2011 or 2012.
That is the problem. Always has been. Not the QB. There hasn't been enough talent or depth at every position across the board in quite sometime. If they had good talent and coaching the last few years then they'd probably be playing like the 05 Giants with jones in his 2nd season.
INSTEAD we have to hope Jones won't become David Carr
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Post by TCHOF on Oct 3, 2020 8:05:25 GMT -5
is he talking about our Flowers being pretty good, when... yes, I haven't a clue as to when ,Skins put him as a guard with help and cut him after a year. He didn’t get cut. Dolphins signed him to a good-sized deal and he is playing pretty well at guard. Still Mr. Hundred Percent!
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Post by Speedman on Oct 3, 2020 8:26:29 GMT -5
yes, I haven't a clue as to when ,Skins put him as a guard with help and cut him after a year. He didn’t get cut. Dolphins signed him to a good-sized deal and he is playing pretty well at guard. Still Mr. Hundred Percent! Do you really believe he is playing well or are you just busting Big Red’s balls. It was said that he was playing well with Washington yet they didn’t resign him.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Oct 3, 2020 8:32:51 GMT -5
Blaming Daniel Jones still feels like blaming Eli.
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Post by GameTime on Oct 3, 2020 8:46:41 GMT -5
Blaming Daniel Jones still feels like blaming Eli. many of the same reason/excuses I guess. But Jones' story is not written yet. Its only in the beginning of chapter two.
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Post by TCHOF on Oct 3, 2020 8:58:30 GMT -5
He didn’t get cut. Dolphins signed him to a good-sized deal and he is playing pretty well at guard. Still Mr. Hundred Percent! Do you really believe he is playing well or are you just busting Big Red’s balls. It was said that he was playing well with Washington yet they didn’t resign him. While breaking Red’s balls is fun (he makes it so easy!), he’s wrong (as always) on Flowers. Flowers played well at guard for the Redskins and then signed a 3 year, $30M deal with the Dolphins. I’ve only seen one Dolphins game (the Thursday night game against the Jags) and Flowers looked to be playing well (as mentioned a couple of times by the announcers).
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Post by NAVY2323(ret) on Oct 3, 2020 9:00:47 GMT -5
Blaming Daniel Jones still feels like blaming Eli. many of the same reason/excuses I guess. But Jones' story is not written yet. Its only in the beginning of chapter two. I am down on Jones but I think how down I am on the Giants isn’t really letting g me be rational about it. I am aware of the good tools he has but since he plays for us I am expecting it to go to ish.
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Post by Speedman on Oct 3, 2020 10:07:35 GMT -5
Do you really believe he is playing well or are you just busting Big Red’s balls. It was said that he was playing well with Washington yet they didn’t resign him. While breaking Red’s balls is fun (he makes it so easy!), he’s wrong (as always) on Flowers. Flowers played well at guard for the Redskins and then signed a 3 year, $30M deal with the Dolphins. I’ve only seen one Dolphins game (the Thursday night game against the Jags) and Flowers looked to be playing well (as mentioned a couple of times by the announcers). I rarely watch football other than the Giants so I don’t know if Flowers played well or not for the other teams. I was just going by the other teams not signing him after one year.
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Post by DandyDon on Oct 3, 2020 10:11:53 GMT -5
Blaming Daniel Jones still feels like blaming Eli. Probably because this team still has the exact same problems it did when Eli was still playing.
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Post by Morehead State on Oct 3, 2020 10:18:10 GMT -5
While breaking Red’s balls is fun (he makes it so easy!), he’s wrong (as always) on Flowers. Flowers played well at guard for the Redskins and then signed a 3 year, $30M deal with the Dolphins. I’ve only seen one Dolphins game (the Thursday night game against the Jags) and Flowers looked to be playing well (as mentioned a couple of times by the announcers). I rarely watch football other than the Giants so I don’t know if Flowers played well or not for the other teams. I was just going by the other teams not signing him after one year. Maybe they tried and couldn't come to an agreement.
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Post by TCHOF on Oct 3, 2020 10:18:40 GMT -5
While breaking Red’s balls is fun (he makes it so easy!), he’s wrong (as always) on Flowers. Flowers played well at guard for the Redskins and then signed a 3 year, $30M deal with the Dolphins. I’ve only seen one Dolphins game (the Thursday night game against the Jags) and Flowers looked to be playing well (as mentioned a couple of times by the announcers). I rarely watch football other than the Giants so I don’t know if Flowers played well or not for the other teams. I was just going by the other teams not signing him after one year. He didn’t get moved to guard until he was with the Redskins. That’s when things turned for him. He’s not a superstar at guard, but he at least plays up to the level of a capable NFL starter. He was a mess at tackle
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Post by TheAnalyst on Oct 3, 2020 10:47:40 GMT -5
Blaming Daniel Jones still feels like blaming Eli. Probably because this team still has the exact same problems it did when Eli was still playing. Yup
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Post by nick030567 on Oct 3, 2020 14:04:20 GMT -5
Blaming Daniel Jones still feels like blaming Eli. Probably because this team still has the exact same problems it did when Eli was still playing. Exactly. Showing that Eli had essentially very little to do with the problems of the team. No QB can be 2011 Eli every season. Especially when the line just got worse and worse. I think Eli had two truly bad seasons. 2013 and 2004. He was inexplicably stupid in 2013, I don't care how bad that OL was. He made a lot of bad choices with the ball that were insane.
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