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Post by Roosevelt on Sept 28, 2020 19:49:10 GMT -5
Sadly I get that same feeling. I hope not I think they need weapons now and hope as I said that OL comes together.
How many years do you think it should take before we start seeing some respectable football week in and week out?
Seems to me Gettleman got this all wrong.
He tried to get one more run with Eli and failed.
He ignored positional value by drafting Saquon and then drafted Jones based on positional value the next year.
Who has Dave drafted with the Giants that looks to be a stand out player? Certainly not Hernandez, BJ Hill, Baker or Beal.
I hope I'm wrong, but right not it's tough to feel good about the future of this team.
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Post by Roosevelt on Sept 28, 2020 19:50:47 GMT -5
What the hell has happened to this franchise? We’re on our 2nd GM, 4th HC, and we still have an inept offensive line. .......welcome to the 70's.
Maybe we need another George Young to take the football operations out of John and Chris Mara's hands.
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Post by Roosevelt on Sept 28, 2020 19:52:40 GMT -5
What the hell has happened to this franchise? We’re on our 2nd GM, 4th HC, and we still have an inept offensive line. To be fair...Eli did stink
He sure did but how much of that was on him? Who could win on those teams?
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Post by Roosevelt on Sept 28, 2020 19:55:09 GMT -5
What the hell has happened to this franchise? We’re on our 2nd GM, 4th HC, and we still have an inept offensive line. Eli was on some bad teams but his play certainly didn’t help. Exactly. The Giants failed to build a decent team around him. I think that's undeniable. I'm not saying Eli was a great QB, but he was pretty damn good and good enough to win a couple SB's.
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Post by thetruth on Sept 28, 2020 19:56:44 GMT -5
What the hell has happened to this franchise? We’re on our 2nd GM, 4th HC, and we still have an inept offensive line. GM they hired was trash. I mean, if you were being objective. The coaching firings were just scapegoats for a talent issue. Fix the GM; fix the talent issue. The Giants never "fixed" the GM issue after they fired Reese. Just downgraded.
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Post by Roosevelt on Sept 28, 2020 19:57:05 GMT -5
What the hell has happened to this franchise? We’re on our 2nd GM, 4th HC, and we still have an inept offensive line. Mara hired a GM that still calls female reporter’s “toots” and drafts players based on his “gut” or who he falls in love with. Didn’t help that Mara was in love with Eli Manning and wanted to select more players to build around him when we should have been moving on.
John Mara watched his dad being too loyal to declining players and he promised himself he wouldn't do that - but he did it just the same.
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Post by Sarcasman on Sept 28, 2020 19:59:59 GMT -5
We have a new QB to blame now. And right now, he can’t hold onto the football to save his life. Also, we have some down right liars or memory loss here. A lot of us, including myself blamed Eli. You want to know why? Because it was easy. He was the face of the franchise, he had some games where you wanted to throw a television at him. Like when he threw left handed to Chris Snee. He played guard if some of you forgot. But, now that Eli is retired he’s revered and held very highly by the fan base. At least he didn't fumble when sliding.... wait..
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Sept 28, 2020 20:05:29 GMT -5
I hope not I think they need weapons now and hope as I said that OL comes together.
How many years do you think it should take before we start seeing some respectable football week in and week out?
Seems to me Gettleman got this all wrong.
He tried to get one more run with Eli and failed.
He ignored positional value by drafting Saquon and then drafted Jones based on positional value the next year.
Who has Dave drafted with the Giants that looks to be a stand out player? Certainly not Hernandez, BJ Hill, Baker or Beal.
I hope I'm wrong, but right not it's tough to feel good about the future of this team.
I agree I am indifferent when it comes to him if they fire him bring me a young guy I couldn't tell you who tho I like what I here about Riddick. he has drafted good players but they need to have some difference makers and Barkely is that when on the field. I'm sick of waiting thats why last year when they fired Shurmur For me he was the biggest mistake now we start again. Like the niners almost mirror the Giants first 3 years but they stuck with Shanny traded for Jimmy G They were just average Armstead was there best Defensive player Thomas was a bust then they drafted Deeebo Samuel, Bosa, Warner those players put them over the top. Giants are where the niners were when they were spinning there wheels. I think if DG gets fired the new guy comes into a decent cap situation and he has some solid good players but needs to get the difference makers.
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Post by Kruunch on Sept 28, 2020 20:05:31 GMT -5
John Mara watch his dad being too loyal to declining players and he promised himself he wouldn't do that - but he did it just the same He all so said his Father's biggest regret was letting go of Phil Simms and always regretted it. I always thought Wellington’s biggest regret was trading Sam Huff.
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Post by Sarcasman on Sept 28, 2020 20:08:40 GMT -5
I hope not I think they need weapons now and hope as I said that OL comes together.
How many years do you think it should take before we start seeing some respectable football week in and week out?
Seems to me Gettleman got this all wrong.
He tried to get one more run with Eli and failed.
He ignored positional value by drafting Saquon and then drafted Jones based on positional value the next year.
Who has Dave drafted with the Giants that looks to be a stand out player? Certainly not Hernandez, BJ Hill, Baker or Beal.
I hope I'm wrong, but right not it's tough to feel good about the future of this team. I've been as patient with Gettelman as I try to be with everybody. But at some point, you have to face the results, or lack thereof. It's undeniable; there is just nothing there. No playmakers, no stand out talents. Yeah, there is probably a core of solid players in the trenches now but that has yet to yield any positive result. And there are teams doing more with just as little. I think Judge is here of the long haul, don;t know why I just think Mara isn't gonna gto make a change there for a coupe of years. At this point it seems all we can hope for is that Judge gets a GM that gets him players he can coach up. Some may be on the roster today but there surely ain't enough of them.
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Post by Kruunch on Sept 28, 2020 20:13:49 GMT -5
I always thought Wellington’s biggest regret was trading Sam Huff. That too. If I remember right (and I might not) it wasn't entirely Wellingtons call on Huff. Allie Sherman traded him. As he did with Rosey Grier, Cliff Livingston and Modzelewski. But, Mara had to ok the trade. As we all know, a Mara can veto any football decision.
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Post by Kruunch on Sept 28, 2020 20:18:51 GMT -5
Allie Sherman traded him. As he did with Rosey Grier, Cliff Livingston and Modzelewski. But, Mara had to ok the trade. As we all know, a Mara can veto any football decision. Which Mara , Wellington or Tim? The “Duke.”
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Post by Roosevelt on Sept 28, 2020 20:20:38 GMT -5
John Mara watch his dad being too loyal to declining players and he promised himself he wouldn't do that - but he did it just the same He all so said his Father's biggest regret was letting go of Phil Simms and always regretted it.
Allowing George to do that yes I heard that.
I think we all could have handled that better if we saw that Dave Brown was the answer. The issue there, was Phil was clearly the better QB coming off a very good season.
It's just another example of poor team management.
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Post by Kruunch on Sept 28, 2020 20:23:57 GMT -5
So Tim Mare didn't make any calls ,isn't that why they brought in George Young the bickering and fighting on the day to day running of the team? From my understanding Wellington always ran the football operations.
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Post by Roosevelt on Sept 28, 2020 20:25:11 GMT -5
How many years do you think it should take before we start seeing some respectable football week in and week out?
Seems to me Gettleman got this all wrong.
He tried to get one more run with Eli and failed.
He ignored positional value by drafting Saquon and then drafted Jones based on positional value the next year.
Who has Dave drafted with the Giants that looks to be a stand out player? Certainly not Hernandez, BJ Hill, Baker or Beal.
I hope I'm wrong, but right not it's tough to feel good about the future of this team. I've been as patient with Gettelman as I try to be with everybody. But at some point, you have to face the results, or lack thereof. It's undeniable; there is just nothing there. No playmakers, no stand out talents. Yeah, there is probably a core of solid players in the trenches now but that has yet to yield any positive result. And there are teams doing more with just as little. I think Judge is here of the long haul, don;t know why I just think Mara isn't gonna gto make a change there for a coupe of years. At this point it seems all we can hope for is that Judge gets a GM that gets him players he can coach up. Some may be on the roster today but there surely ain't enough of them. I agree and I like the way you're thinking about teaming someone with Judge. And while I know nothing about Kevin Abrams - I think he's been their capologist - all signs have pointed towards him being heir apparent.
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Post by Kruunch on Sept 28, 2020 20:27:54 GMT -5
Allowing George to do that yes I heard that.
I think we all could have handled that better if we saw that Dave Brown was the answer. The issue there, was Phil was clearly the better QB coming off a very good season.
It's just another example of poor team management.
Yup , but we didn't let George Young go or ask for his head and GY was the reason BB never get the Coaching job here. Just saying ...........people need to relax and just wait it out. George Young was regarded as one of the better football minds this game has ever seen. He turned which was a dysfunctional franchise into a powerhouse. Young always deserved the benefit of the doubt. Gettleman, wishes he could.
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Post by Kruunch on Sept 28, 2020 20:31:44 GMT -5
George Young was regarded as one of the better football minds this game has seen. He turned which was a dysfunctional franchise into a powerhouse. Young always deserved the benefit of the doubt. Gettleman, wishes he could. I realize maybe not here by Giant fans but DG is well respected around the league too So is Pat Shurmur. It means nothing..
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Post by Roosevelt on Sept 28, 2020 20:32:38 GMT -5
Allowing George to do that yes I heard that.
I think we all could have handled that better if we saw that Dave Brown was the answer. The issue there, was Phil was clearly the better QB coming off a very good season.
It's just another example of poor team management.
Yup , but we didn't let George Young go or ask for his head and GY was the reason BB never got the Coaching job here. Just saying ...........people need to relax and just wait it out.
That's only because there wasn't The Giants Board back then.
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Post by Roosevelt on Sept 28, 2020 20:35:43 GMT -5
I agree and I like the way you're thinking about teaming someone with Judge. And while I know nothing about Kevin Abrams - I think he's been their capologist - all signs have pointed towards him being heir apparent. Sorry but as someone else said and I agree , if that was true he would of had the job or a job by now. I would assume this person does have a job.
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Post by Zimonami on Sept 28, 2020 21:09:58 GMT -5
I think I have an advantage of having lived thru the 20 years of losing after 1963. We didn't even have a GM until 1979, when Rozelle literally forced Mara to take Young. But, once Young came in you could see a foundation building, and the very last part of that foundation was several years (7) of plugging new pieces into generating an effective OLine.... 1985, and Bavaro came that same year to finish that championship OL. I see the same pieces developing now, and don't want to succumb to the instant gratification thinking that will dump DG, or DJ before the current plan can evolve. Well Zim...allow me to retort. There was no free agency and there was no salary cap. teams could hold onto players forever, even if they had no contract. The only real way to rebuild a team back then was the draft. Back then..there were "5 year plans". Not the case anymore. The NFL has designed a system where parody is king. Each team MUST spend a certain amount on salary. Teams can't afford to keep all their players so there are usually a lot of really good players available as free agents. In other words, rebuilds are no longer 5 year, or as you suggested, 7 year plans. teams can turn around in a year, two, or on the outside three years. When they don't, it's because of poor decision making by front offices, or poor coaching or both. There simply is no excuse for us to be this bad in year three of Dave's tenure.
This is exactly the same argument my51 year old son gave me... and I told him every point was valid... a great argument for these times. But, you still make mistakes and the guy you plug in from your first rnd, ala Baker, turns out to be a bum, and Beal and Solder opt out, and you ace FS pick, McKinney isn't here, and Gates and Fleming aren't playing well and affecting the cohesion of the Oline, and your TE, that's the only old piece you didn't replace can't block and misses passes, and your best WR is hurt, and your Best RB is hurt... and your salary cap sucked when you arrived, so you took shots on low cost FA';s, and they didn't work out... You want to help the rebuilding process thru FA's as you suggest, you better have a bank account to use, or you're screwed, and he had his hands tied. He almost literally had to replace 53 players, and you just don't plug perfect replacements into all those empty seats without making some mistakes. But, your argument is valid, for sure. Retort respected. There are always reason/excuses... and sometimes they are valid and sometimes they're BS. I think, especially in light of all new coaches and all new systems, that these guys need quite a bit more time together before we decapitate DG.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Sept 28, 2020 21:11:44 GMT -5
No......
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Post by Zimonami on Sept 28, 2020 21:14:40 GMT -5
I always thought Wellington’s biggest regret was trading Sam Huff. That too. If I remember right (and I might not) it wasn't entirely Wellingtons call on Huff. Allie Sherman wanted him gone because all the players hated Allie and Huff was their leader.
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Post by Morehead State on Sept 28, 2020 21:16:24 GMT -5
Well Zim...allow me to retort. There was no free agency and there was no salary cap. teams could hold onto players forever, even if they had no contract. The only real way to rebuild a team back then was the draft. Back then..there were "5 year plans". Not the case anymore. The NFL has designed a system where parody is king. Each team MUST spend a certain amount on salary. Teams can't afford to keep all their players so there are usually a lot of really good players available as free agents. In other words, rebuilds are no longer 5 year, or as you suggested, 7 year plans. teams can turn around in a year, two, or on the outside three years. When they don't, it's because of poor decision making by front offices, or poor coaching or both. There simply is no excuse for us to be this bad in year three of Dave's tenure.
This is exactly the same argument my51 year old son gave me... and I told him every point was valid... a great argument for these times. But, you still make mistakes and the guy you plug in from your first rnd, ala Baker, turns out to be a bum, and Beal and Solder opt out, and you ace FS pick, McKinney isn't here, and Gates and Fleming aren't playing well and affecting the cohesion of the Oline, and your TE, that's the only old piece you didn't replace can't block and misses passes, and your best WR is hurt, and your Best RB is hurt... and your salary cap sucked when you arrived, so you took shots on low cost FA';s, and they didn't work out... You want to help the rebuilding process thru FA's as you suggest, you better have a bank account to use, or you're screwed, and he had his hands tied. He almost literally had to replace 53 players, and you just don't plug perfect replacements into all those empty seats without making some mistakes. But, your argument is valid, for sure. Retort respected. There are always reason/excuses... and sometimes they are valid and sometimes they're BS. I think, especially in light of all new coaches and all new systems, that these guys need quite a bit more time together before we decapitate DG. Zim...Every team has injuries. We just played a team that lost essentially all their top players. Back up QB, third string TE, all back up corners, top WR out. Two best pass rushers out...... And their JV team crushed us.
He simply doesn't know how to build a team in today's NFL, even though the league makes it possible to do it in short order. He made his judgements, and they were almost all wrong.
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Post by Sarcasman on Sept 28, 2020 21:33:26 GMT -5
I've been as patient with Gettelman as I try to be with everybody. But at some point, you have to face the results, or lack thereof. It's undeniable; there is just nothing there. No playmakers, no stand out talents. Yeah, there is probably a core of solid players in the trenches now but that has yet to yield any positive result. And there are teams doing more with just as little. I think Judge is here of the long haul, don;t know why I just think Mara isn't gonna gto make a change there for a coupe of years. At this point it seems all we can hope for is that Judge gets a GM that gets him players he can coach up. Some may be on the roster today but there surely ain't enough of them. I agree and I like the way you're thinking about teaming someone with Judge. And while I know nothing about Kevin Abrams - I think he's been their capologist - all signs have pointed towards him being heir apparent. That's fine but it sure doesn't solve the Chris and John Mara problem. John needs to fade out of sight. And they need a progressive football guy in that FO.
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Post by Jomo on Sept 28, 2020 21:37:07 GMT -5
Where is Pete Roselle when you need him?
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Post by Kruunch on Sept 28, 2020 21:40:22 GMT -5
Where is Pete Roselle when you need him? Pushing up daisies.
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Post by Morehead State on Sept 28, 2020 21:43:58 GMT -5
Where is Pete Roselle when you need him? Well maybe Roger can recommend someone.
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Post by Fletch842 on Sept 29, 2020 6:18:08 GMT -5
I've been as patient with Gettelman as I try to be with everybody. But at some point, you have to face the results, or lack thereof. It's undeniable; there is just nothing there. No playmakers, no stand out talents. Yeah, there is probably a core of solid players in the trenches now but that has yet to yield any positive result. And there are teams doing more with just as little. I think Judge is here of the long haul, don;t know why I just think Mara isn't gonna gto make a change there for a coupe of years. At this point it seems all we can hope for is that Judge gets a GM that gets him players he can coach up. Some may be on the roster today but there surely ain't enough of them. I agree and I like the way you're thinking about teaming someone with Judge. And while I know nothing about Kevin Abrams - I think he's been their capologist - all signs have pointed towards him being heir apparent. The way this team has performed the last 8 - 10 years, there should be no heir apparent within the franchise. If we don't start improving, and DG does get the axe, I really hope they go totally outside for some true new blood.
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Post by GameTime on Sept 29, 2020 6:36:02 GMT -5
its not still Eli's fault??!! I mean he had the balls to retire and leave Jones all on his own!! Not a team player at all!! Thanks for nothing Eli!!
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Post by Roosevelt on Sept 29, 2020 7:06:49 GMT -5
I agree and I like the way you're thinking about teaming someone with Judge. And while I know nothing about Kevin Abrams - I think he's been their capologist - all signs have pointed towards him being heir apparent. The way this team has performed the last 8 - 10 years, there should be no heir apparent within the franchise. If we don't start improving, and DG does get the axe, I really hope they go totally outside for some true new blood. I don’t disagree but that’s the Giants way.
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