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Post by BigBlueDog42 on May 21, 2021 14:39:29 GMT -5
I agree 100% about the pass blocking and it's huge! I can't imagine B. Parcells and B. Belichick having a RB who can't block. Fans are gonna talk about SB speed, power etc... but the Giants Oline is the weak link added with D Jones turnovers and then you put in a RB who can't pick up the blitz??? WTF !!! No way, put the money in the oline get 3 RB's by committee and now you don't put all your eggs in one basket on the field and with the budget. That is the truth and baffling to me. He seems committed to improving all aspects of his game but that one stands out as a hole in his game. He could have been confused about assignments with so many gaping holes in our OL with multiple defenders pouring through. Or I could be making excuses for him. Let's see where that goes this year. What makes it more annoying is that was supposed to be something he was good with coming out when he knows who to block he does ok, lol unfortunately for him DC make it a lot more complex then the college blitz schemes run within the games up front, that said it does make sense that it might be a bit more confusing with free rushers mixed in. Saquon is a full commitment dude think every time he heres or sees this as a weakness it probably gets under his skin hopefully he can get it straightened out.
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Post by TEM on May 21, 2021 14:44:26 GMT -5
So if a player sucks and you think that trend will not continue. Reward him a big contract. Good luck with that logic. Right, like we did with Plaxico. Burress sucked? That is news to me and the rest of the NFL world www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BurrPl00.htm
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on May 21, 2021 14:50:16 GMT -5
I agree 100% about the pass blocking and it's huge! I can't imagine B. Parcells and B. Belichick having a RB who can't block. Fans are gonna talk about SB speed, power etc... but the Giants Oline is the weak link added with D Jones turnovers and then you put in a RB who can't pick up the blitz??? WTF !!! No way, put the money in the oline get 3 RB's by committee and now you don't put all your eggs in one basket on the field and with the budget. Truer words have never been spoken... Build the OL, and stop listening to the fantasy playing fans...running backs are media creations for sports center. Play calling and the OL creates these overpaid players in a position of little value Exactly if you draft guy like Barkely you better at least have a good run blocking line and an OC who can use every aspect of his game correctly 235 4.39 joy stick type guys who can run the route tree don't come around very often. The team needs to make sure the fans player and the NFL get to see the great things that could happen with player like this. We only got to see him on a few deep posts and angle routes player with that skill set require a play caller that has ton of creativity to his game. and an OL that wins.
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Post by Kruunch on May 21, 2021 14:51:29 GMT -5
You’re making an argument against yourself. You want the “best players that help us win.” With Barkley healthy and playing we’re 8-23 in three seasons. We’re doing a whole lot of losing with him. I want to win period.. And since we aren’t doing that with Barkley, might as well do it with the next guy. Bad teams invest heavily into an injury prone running back. Good teams know when to say good bye. I absolutely am not. I have stated from the beginning his contract is 2 years off. You are and others are the ones who stated no matter if he helps dig us out of the hole win a Sb or has pro bowl numbers. Don't pay him period . Here is a bit of advice. Allow the book to be written before you read it. Yeah, so what? It’s not like we’re saying get rid of Jim Brown. If there is a position, where you can continue to have a revolving door. It’s, running back. The offensive line is key, continue building that unit. And you can have a great running game regardless of who’s running the ball.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on May 21, 2021 15:03:39 GMT -5
As far as an answer He has to look like the unicorn playmaker he hinted he was going to be in his rookie year 2500 total yards and part of a high octane machine that scores a lot of points It is up to the team to get the OL around the QB and RB along with the WRs giving them a chance to excel. Having a creative play caller who will have him catching balls all over the field one week and toting the rock 20 times the next and mixing it up when the time and defense is right for that plan. Right now they have a QB who can take to the house a RB that needs to be respected and can hurt teams big time and as good a WR core then they have had in years is Garret up to the task that is the big question. If Barkely is healthy that number 2500 is very attainable with creative smart play caller all these guys should kelli this year.
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Post by TEM on May 21, 2021 15:12:10 GMT -5
I absolutely am not. I have stated from the beginning his contract is 2 years off. You are and others are the ones who stated no matter if he helps dig us out of the hole win a Sb or has pro bowl numbers. Don't pay him period . Here is a bit of advice. Allow the book to be written before you read it. Yeah, so what? It’s not like we’re saying get rid of Jim Brown. If there is a position, where you can continue to have a revolving door. It’s, running back. The offensive line is key, continue building that unit. And you can have a great running game regardless of who’s running the ball. A good player. Is a good player . I know you can't stand the pick .But to even suggest if he plays at a high level let him walk .
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Post by Kruunch on May 21, 2021 15:28:42 GMT -5
Yeah, so what? It’s not like we’re saying get rid of Jim Brown. If there is a position, where you can continue to have a revolving door. It’s, running back. The offensive line is key, continue building that unit. And you can have a great running game regardless of who’s running the ball. A good player. Is a good player . I know you can't stand the pick .But to even suggest if he plays at a high level let him walk . What’s to like about the pick? Besides talking about his rookie year, and how great of a human being he is. What has he done for the team? Besides, give us something to talk about during a slow period. We have two more years with him, let’s get the most out of him. Use his strengths, and see what happens. This fairy tale that he will have two all pro seasons with a super bowl victory would be a best seller in the fictional section.
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Martin
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Post by Martin on May 21, 2021 15:38:31 GMT -5
As far as an answer He has to look like the unicorn playmaker he hinted he was going to be in his rookie year 2500 total yards and part of a high octane machine that scores a lot of points It is up to the team to get the OL around the QB and RB along with the WRs giving them a chance to excel. Having a creative play caller who will have him catching balls all over the field one week and toting the rock 20 times the next and mixing it up when the time and defense is right for that plan. Right now they have a QB who can take to the house a RB that needs to be respected and can hurt teams big time and as good a WR core then they have had in years is Garret up to the task that is the big question. If Barkely is healthy that number 2500 is very attainable with creative smart play caller all these guys should kelli this year. I want SB to succeed but it's the time frame that the Giants are under. The Giants IMO are gonna need 1 more year to fix this oline. After the 2022 draft I see real good thing which is Barkley last year under contract. I think he will be 26 so we have to wait and see but too many times I have seen RB's either get injured or production fall off. It's so hard to pay huge money for that particular position when you can take care of the oline and elsewhere, get a few stout RB's and your still moving the chains without that big financial burden. Bill Belichick was pretty damn good at that.
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jppt1974
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Post by jppt1974 on May 21, 2021 15:42:35 GMT -5
Well needs to have a better OL as well as also that of staying healthy there
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Post by snyder55 on May 21, 2021 15:44:58 GMT -5
there doesn't seem to be any good reason to throw huge amounts of money to the RB position because there are always plenty of good solid RBs in the draft every year...
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Post by snyder55 on May 21, 2021 15:47:29 GMT -5
I wish we had a few more players who sucked like Plax
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2021 15:57:00 GMT -5
Truer words have never been spoken... Build the OL, and stop listening to the fantasy playing fans...running backs are media creations for sports center. Play calling and the OL creates these overpaid players in a position of little value Exactly if you draft guy like Barkely you better at least have a good run blocking line and an OC who can use every aspect of his game correctly 235 4.39 joy stick type guys who can run the route tree don't come around very often. The team needs to make sure the fans player and the NFL get to see the great things that could happen with player like this. We only got to see him on a few deep posts and angle routes player with that skill set require a play caller that has ton of creativity to his game. and an OL that wins. I'm not sure Barkley runs the route tree...screens, wheels and flats...and that 4.4 speed is the same Toney ran. Once he leaves his poor pass pro, he better be ready to catch the ball quickly...not seeing crisp route running from him as I observe many videos of his play (play calling gets him open)...certainly not downfield...but what you would come to expect from a position that lines up either behind or along side the QB. He also has a few easy concentration drops...hope with that rebuilt knee we don't get more of those. As a Giant team fan, I am hopeful he has a great year when he comes back....good enough to trade him for a 2nd rounder. Here's a nice video discussing his nice rookie season...note the 75% of running plays off ZONE....50% i nside zone blocking. The narrator explains exactly what any coach sees watching the Barkley film...amazing jump cuts to the house...and some wrong reads through that zone...remember, zone blocking allows for a multiple possible areas to run, vs power/man/gap...where a running back is directed to hit a certain gap. One reason Hernandez was sitting vs Shane. Barkley also likes to bounce plays outside too often as well, and needs to take the 2 yard gain vs 5 yard loss. His pass pro, or lack of...always been an issue. The Giants also had a brutal team record with him amassing yards... Barkley giving fantasy league players chubbies vs team wins for us. Give me a couple good running backs vs one that touches the ball too much ...and creating a better balanced team. Also, read some of those 2 year old comments for a now laugh. He's a great back, and in a limited role vs cowbell back...we can win a lot of games...until we have to pay him too much. If we want to make the playoffs this year...Barkley will have to be part of this team, and not THE team...the, we can't be paying him too much as part of a team problem. IMHO of course.
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Post by jb456 on May 21, 2021 16:10:52 GMT -5
Relevance to the discussion? The title of the thread is "NYG Highest Paid RB in NFL History". You posted a list of the players with the most all time rushing yards. It appeared that you were arguing for making Barkley that highest paid RB. I mentioned that the majority of running backs production falls off before 30 and it doesn't make sense to pay him that much. Also, Barkley has an unfavorable injury history and recovering from a massive injury. Like you said, he is under contract for 2021 & 2022 BUT if he has a great year, he will want to be paid BEFORE 2022 (If he was smart and I think he is). If that's the case, they should try to trade him for a second round pick. To much risk with Barkley no matter what he does in 2021. Now you are making a strawman argument. I was just point out what Martin saying that RBs having a short lifespan in the NFL is an inaccurate statement AR you really implying if he plays well .He should be punished for that and become trade bait? If you are a player coming out of the NCAA and the Giants do as you suggest reward players coming off their rookie contracts that play well with trading them. Would you want to be drafted by the giants? . I'm not implying, I'm overtly stating that it would be moronic to pay a running back with a significantly injury history anything close to $15M no matter what happens this year. Running backs have a short life span and when you add in all the injuries that Barkley has had, there is absolutely no reason to sign this guy long term. I also want to make it clear that I like Barkley as a player even though he needs to fix some holes in his game. I just think that money could be better spent elsewhere. You don't need to have an all world running back to win in the NFL. That money would be better spent bolstering the Oline (if they can sign the right FA's) and that would help the run and pass game.
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te88
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Post by te88 on May 21, 2021 16:11:28 GMT -5
Barring another injury and/or a disastrous season I think they will sign him and give him the biggest contract ever for a RB. It’s a foregone conclusion to me
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Post by jb456 on May 21, 2021 16:19:30 GMT -5
Golladay is a valid point and I understand where you coming from. A main problem I have is that SB has blocking issues which are fundamental to this position. If they don't get ironed out then it's a no brainer. He must protect the QB. I want my weapons with the ball not blocking. If he has be held behind the line to help an inept o-line . We have bigger issues than "our RB can't block" Doesn't this mean that every time Barkley is on the field on 3rd down and doesn't run he is a liability with no role other than a decoy? What happens when the only person between Jones and blitzing D back is Barkley and he throws butterfly kisses at him and gets blown back 8 yards? The title of this video should be Jamal Adams embarrasses Barkley....
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Martin
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Post by Martin on May 21, 2021 16:24:43 GMT -5
Exactly if you draft guy like Barkely you better at least have a good run blocking line and an OC who can use every aspect of his game correctly 235 4.39 joy stick type guys who can run the route tree don't come around very often. The team needs to make sure the fans player and the NFL get to see the great things that could happen with player like this. We only got to see him on a few deep posts and angle routes player with that skill set require a play caller that has ton of creativity to his game. and an OL that wins. I'm not sure Barkley runs the route tree...screens, wheels and flats...and that 4.4 speed is the same Toney ran. Once he leaves his poor pass pro, he better be ready to catch the ball quickly...not seeing crisp route running from him as I observe many videos of his play (play calling gets him open)...certainly not downfield...but what you would come to expect from a position that lines up either behind or along side the QB. He also has a few easy concentration drops...hope with that rebuilt knee we don't get more of those. As a Giant team fan, I am hopeful he has a great year when he comes back....good enough to trade him for a 2nd rounder. Here's a nice video discussing his nice rookie season...note the 75% of running plays off ZONE....50% i nside zone blocking. The narrator explains exactly what any coach sees watching the Barkley film...amazing jump cuts to the house...and some wrong reads through that zone...remember, zone blocking allows for a multiple possible areas to run, vs power/man/gap...where a running back is directed to hit a certain gap. One reason Hernandez was sitting vs Shane. Barkley also likes to bounce plays outside too often as well, and needs to take the 2 yard gain vs 5 yard loss. His pass pro, or lack of...always been an issue. The Giants also had a brutal team record with him amassing yards... Barkley giving fantasy league players chubbies vs team wins for us. Give me a couple good running backs vs one that touches the ball too much ...and creating a better balanced team. Also, read some of those 2 year old comments for a now laugh. He's a great back, and in a limited role vs cowbell back...we can win a lot of games...until we have to pay him too much. If we want to make the playoffs this year...Barkley will have to be part of this team, and not THE team...the, we can't be paying him too much as part of a team problem. IMHO of course. Cool video. What I notice is a tremendous amount of mis-tackles. Some were due to Barkley's shake n bake and many were just horrible tackling. I think with improved Oline he will play well provided his health is back. In any case thanks for getting that. Now it's time to head on over to the local tavern
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on May 21, 2021 17:28:04 GMT -5
Exactly if you draft guy like Barkely you better at least have a good run blocking line and an OC who can use every aspect of his game correctly 235 4.39 joy stick type guys who can run the route tree don't come around very often. The team needs to make sure the fans player and the NFL get to see the great things that could happen with player like this. We only got to see him on a few deep posts and angle routes player with that skill set require a play caller that has ton of creativity to his game. and an OL that wins. I'm not sure Barkley runs the route tree...screens, wheels and flats...and that 4.4 speed is the same Toney ran. Once he leaves his poor pass pro, he better be ready to catch the ball quickly...not seeing crisp route running from him as I observe many videos of his play (play calling gets him open)...certainly not downfield...but what you would come to expect from a position that lines up either behind or along side the QB. He also has a few easy concentration drops...hope with that rebuilt knee we don't get more of those. As a Giant team fan, I am hopeful he has a great year when he comes back....good enough to trade him for a 2nd rounder. Here's a nice video discussing his nice rookie season...note the 75% of running plays off ZONE....50% i nside zone blocking. The narrator explains exactly what any coach sees watching the Barkley film...amazing jump cuts to the house...and some wrong reads through that zone...remember, zone blocking allows for a multiple possible areas to run, vs power/man/gap...where a running back is directed to hit a certain gap. One reason Hernandez was sitting vs Shane. Barkley also likes to bounce plays outside too often as well, and needs to take the 2 yard gain vs 5 yard loss. His pass pro, or lack of...always been an issue. The Giants also had a brutal team record with him amassing yards... Barkley giving fantasy league players chubbies vs team wins for us. Give me a couple good running backs vs one that touches the ball too much ...and creating a better balanced team. Also, read some of those 2 year old comments for a now laugh. He's a great back, and in a limited role vs cowbell back...we can win a lot of games...until we have to pay him too much. If we want to make the playoffs this year...Barkley will have to be part of this team, and not THE team...the, we can't be paying him too much as part of a team problem. IMHO of course. Thank you Aris that actually backs what I say up his negative are few his positives are plentiful and he can still get better unfortunately we didn't get to see it last year his drops are no more or less then anyone else . I'm surprised he didn't touch on the deep post he caught for a TD against the skins. Even with all of this if they can afford him with out hurting the team and he is healthy and producing after next year they should resign if he is not elite and is injury riddled he would have to go. just like OBJ having one guy piling TDs and yards doesn't help team win games unless others are benefitting and producing also. I am never in favor of letting good to great player walk unless you have to insanely over pay. He has 2 years to get healthy and prove his worth to this team. I agree with the narrator he should be catching balls not sitting in and blocking that is where creativity in scheme comes in. No player should ever be THE team maybe for a game a greta player might take over but there has to be other contributors. back at you and I would send you shot with it if I could.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on May 21, 2021 17:32:03 GMT -5
I'm not sure Barkley runs the route tree...screens, wheels and flats...and that 4.4 speed is the same Toney ran. Once he leaves his poor pass pro, he better be ready to catch the ball quickly...not seeing crisp route running from him as I observe many videos of his play (play calling gets him open)...certainly not downfield...but what you would come to expect from a position that lines up either behind or along side the QB. He also has a few easy concentration drops...hope with that rebuilt knee we don't get more of those. As a Giant team fan, I am hopeful he has a great year when he comes back....good enough to trade him for a 2nd rounder. Here's a nice video discussing his nice rookie season...note the 75% of running plays off ZONE....50% i nside zone blocking. The narrator explains exactly what any coach sees watching the Barkley film...amazing jump cuts to the house...and some wrong reads through that zone...remember, zone blocking allows for a multiple possible areas to run, vs power/man/gap...where a running back is directed to hit a certain gap. One reason Hernandez was sitting vs Shane. Barkley also likes to bounce plays outside too often as well, and needs to take the 2 yard gain vs 5 yard loss. His pass pro, or lack of...always been an issue. The Giants also had a brutal team record with him amassing yards... Barkley giving fantasy league players chubbies vs team wins for us. Give me a couple good running backs vs one that touches the ball too much ...and creating a better balanced team. Also, read some of those 2 year old comments for a now laugh. He's a great back, and in a limited role vs cowbell back...we can win a lot of games...until we have to pay him too much. If we want to make the playoffs this year...Barkley will have to be part of this team, and not THE team...the, we can't be paying him too much as part of a team problem. IMHO of course. Cool video. What I notice is a tremendous amount of mis-tackles. Some were due to Barkley's shake n bake and many were just horrible tackling. I think with improved Oline he will play well provided his health is back. In any case thanks for getting that. Now it's time to head on over to the local tavern Yea he's a big dude arm tackles aren't gonna do it he's over 230 if they can manage to block well enough to get him to the second level he will be a nightmare if healthy. If he could get the type of blocking Zeke had early in his career not being touched before 2 to 4 yards it could be a lot of fun for the next 2 years anyway.
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Post by Nite on May 21, 2021 17:48:40 GMT -5
Yes he will be the highest paid rb in history
By his next team (where he promptly re-injures the ACL on the 3rd play of the first game 2022..pissing off his new owner - Jerrah J)
Barkley has a decent comeback year, gains...say 1300 all purpose yards..DG in a moment of clarity and trades him, right after the last game for a 2nd and 3rd rd(er)..
Thats after another moment of clarity where he picks up FA Michael Carter and/or Trey Sermon in mid-season for a bucket of ham sandwiches and a jar of pickles, both contribute to our 160 rushing yrd/gm......incidentally both con block
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Post by giantlegacy on May 21, 2021 17:57:06 GMT -5
Yes he will be the highest paid rb in history By his next team (where he promptly re-injures the ACL on the 3rd play of the first game 2022..pissing off his new owner - Jerrah J) Barkley has a decent comeback year, gains...say 1300 all purpose yards..DG in a moment of clarity and trades him, right after the last game for a 2nd and 3rd rd(er).. Thats after another moment of clarity where he picks up FA Michael Carter and/or Trey Sermon in mid-season for a bucket of ham sandwiches and a jar of pickles, both contribute to our 160 rushing yrd/gm......incidentally both con block How are both of them going to be on the market Ans why Sermon,a plodding big back with an even bigger injury history than Barkley And 160 on the ground a game witb 285 in the air... That's a number 1 offense in tbe league as that's 2 K on the ground and 45K in the air
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Post by Nite on May 21, 2021 18:00:26 GMT -5
Yes he will be the highest paid rb in history By his next team (where he promptly re-injures the ACL on the 3rd play of the first game 2022..pissing off his new owner - Jerrah J) Barkley has a decent comeback year, gains...say 1300 all purpose yards..DG in a moment of clarity and trades him, right after the last game for a 2nd and 3rd rd(er).. Thats after another moment of clarity where he picks up FA Michael Carter and/or Trey Sermon in mid-season for a bucket of ham sandwiches and a jar of pickles, both contribute to our 160 rushing yrd/gm......incidentally both con block How are both of them going to be on the market Ans why Sermon,a plodding big back with an even bigger injury history than Barkley And 160 on the ground a game witb 285 in the air... That's a number 1 offense in tbe league as that's 2 K on the ground and 45K in the air Those are just two names I came up with. Out of the two I prefer Carter if he is available..
If we can get those numbers and the defense plays well then we will be a playoff team
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Post by giantlegacy on May 21, 2021 18:05:46 GMT -5
How are both of them going to be on the market Ans why Sermon,a plodding big back with an even bigger injury history than Barkley And 160 on the ground a game witb 285 in the air... That's a number 1 offense in tbe league as that's 2 K on the ground and 45K in the air Those are just two names I came up with. Out of the two I prefer Carter if he is available..
If we can get those numbers and the defense plays well then we will be a playoff team
If we get those numbers and the defense plays well we are a super bowl contender
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Post by imgrate on May 21, 2021 18:51:07 GMT -5
He wasn't anything special until he got to us. Anyway, a little beside the point. I think myself and a couple others believe that paying a running back top dollar on a 2nd contract hurts your team more than it helps. If you don't agree with that, that's OK, just different philosophies.
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Post by DandyDon on May 21, 2021 19:03:21 GMT -5
I was against drafting him at 2. Not because of him specifically, but because of the position. He is an amazing athlete.
A three down RB is getting hit more often with harder contact than almost anyone else on the field. It remains to be seen how he recovers, and although I think his drive will influence that, most of it is just biological. No one can know that now.
I agree if he's a probowl player for the next two years it's going to be a tough call about extending him. But from what I've seen so far, I bet he's not going to stay healthy, and it's not going to be an issue. They won't extend him.
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Martin
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Post by Martin on May 21, 2021 19:08:33 GMT -5
Cool video. What I notice is a tremendous amount of mis-tackles. Some were due to Barkley's shake n bake and many were just horrible tackling. I think with improved Oline he will play well provided his health is back. In any case thanks for getting that. Now it's time to head on over to the local tavern Yea he's a big dude arm tackles aren't gonna do it he's over 230 if they can manage to block well enough to get him to the second level he will be a nightmare if healthy. If he could get the type of blocking Zeke had early in his career not being touched before 2 to 4 yards it could be a lot of fun for the next 2 years anyway. Without a doubt you have to wrap him up. If this Oline can make nice progress this team has the weapons!
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Post by FundamentallySoundJones on May 22, 2021 6:16:36 GMT -5
If we dont have a winning record by trade deadline, id shop him around.
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Post by GameTime on May 22, 2021 7:25:29 GMT -5
There are other variables aside from his own issue of health.
Will Jones play well enough to get extended?
Will the Oline players all step up?
Will the high dollar FAs pan out?
If none of the above works out then Barkley will be part of the sweep out the door.
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Martin
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Post by Martin on May 22, 2021 7:30:49 GMT -5
If we dont have a winning record by trade deadline, id shop him around. The big herschel walker trade?
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on May 22, 2021 7:50:15 GMT -5
Yea he's a big dude arm tackles aren't gonna do it he's over 230 if they can manage to block well enough to get him to the second level he will be a nightmare if healthy. If he could get the type of blocking Zeke had early in his career not being touched before 2 to 4 yards it could be a lot of fun for the next 2 years anyway. Without a doubt you have to wrap him up. If this Oline can make nice progress this team has the weapons! I do agree with your point tho Martin if he is healthy and showing signs he is ready to build off what was a fantastic rookie year and a real good sophomore year getting better and still ascending then if they can afford him with in the structure of their cap projection then sign. I f he is a good back then try to pay him what he is worth if a deal can't be reached there is a draft.
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Post by TEM on May 22, 2021 8:27:24 GMT -5
He wasn't anything special until he got to us. Anyway, a little beside the point. I think myself and a couple others believe that paying a running back top dollar on a 2nd contract hurts your team more than it helps. If you don't agree with that, that's OK, just different philosophies. In 2004 he had a 59% completion percentage with 19 yards per catch 5 TDs in 11 games. Keep trying to use him as an excuse to sign sucky players because you believe they will get better. What else do you have to show on him to show he "sucked" when Accorsi singed him.
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