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Post by TEM on May 25, 2021 19:21:22 GMT -5
This is the same head coach and front office you’ve been bitching about for neglecting drafting a single offensive lineman in the draft. Now, they’re geniuses. That TEM, is the definition of hypocrisy.. They can’t be idiots one second, and trusted the next. It’s a classic fit your narrative argument. Oh but you are wrong . Unlike the non-addressing the As you say "a pass protecting RB.' They did address the O-line. I just shown my concern in who they addressed it with. Unlikely to paraphrase what you stated .Even if he is exceptional for the next 2 seasons. You want him gone.( I can show your post) I have stated I want to be wrong about the O-line numerous times. Can you say you want to be wrong about Barkley? This the exact phrase you used. "Then we thank him for his services, as we drive him to the airport" As I have been saying pass protection is low on the skill list on why RBs are signed.
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Post by Kruunch on May 25, 2021 19:40:30 GMT -5
This is the same head coach and front office you’ve been bitching about for neglecting drafting a single offensive lineman in the draft. Now, they’re geniuses. That TEM, is the definition of hypocrisy.. They can’t be idiots one second, and trusted the next. It’s a classic fit your narrative argument. Oh but you are wrong . Unlike the non-addressing the As you say "a pass protecting RB.' They did address the O-line. I just shown my concern in who they addressed it with. Unlikely to paraphrase what you stated .Even if he is exceptional for the next 2 seasons. You want him gone.( I can show your post) I have stated I want to be wrong about the O-line numerous times. Can you say you want to be wrong about Barkley? This the exact phrase you used. "Then we thank him for his services, as we drive him to the airport" I know what I said. I don’t want to resign Barkley, so what? I’m one of many who feel the same way. Why invest a lot of money into a running back? A running back who has had two injuries to his legs. You on the other hand want to reward him, on his valiant effort of a story you concocted. With his two all pro seasons and super bowl victory. What was it that you said? “Football is an entertainment business, by losing your best performer you won’t fill the house.” That’s been disproved since the days of leather helmets. Fans will go to the games regardless if Barkley, or any other player isn’t there. Did the world stop revolving when Eli Manning retired? Or when Beckham got traded? No, players come and go, the team continues to stand.
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Post by Kruunch on May 25, 2021 19:46:32 GMT -5
Oh but you are wrong . Unlike the non-addressing the As you say "a pass protecting RB.' They did address the O-line. I just shown my concern in who they addressed it with. Unlikely to paraphrase what you stated .Even if he is exceptional for the next 2 seasons. You want him gone.( I can show your post) I have stated I want to be wrong about the O-line numerous times. Can you say you want to be wrong about Barkley? This the exact phrase you used. "Then we thank him for his services, as we drive him to the airport" As I have been saying pass protection is low on the skill list on why RBs are signed. It’s a skill nonetheless. One of the biggest touchdowns in franchise history, was done in part to Brandon Jacobs diagnosing the free man, and blocking him. That extra second gave Eli the chance to make the game winning touchdown in Super Bowl XLII.
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Post by TEM on May 25, 2021 19:59:02 GMT -5
Oh but you are wrong . Unlike the non-addressing the As you say "a pass protecting RB.' They did address the O-line. I just shown my concern in who they addressed it with. Unlikely to paraphrase what you stated .Even if he is exceptional for the next 2 seasons. You want him gone.( I can show your post) I have stated I want to be wrong about the O-line numerous times. Can you say you want to be wrong about Barkley? This the exact phrase you used. "Then we thank him for his services, as we drive him to the airport" I know what I said. I don’t want to resign Barkley, so what? I’m one of many who feel the same way. Why invest a lot of money into a running back? A running back who has had two injuries to his legs. You on the other hand want to reward him, on his valiant effort of a story you concocted. With his two all pro seasons and super bowl victory. What was it that you said? “Football is an entertainment business, by losing your best performer you won’t fill the house.” That’s been disproved since the days of leather helmets. Fans will go to the games regardless if Barkley, or any other player isn’t there. Did the world stop revolving when Eli Manning retired? Or when Beckham got traded? No, players come and go, the team continues to stand. If he plays at high level for the next 2 seasons you are damn right he should be rewarded. Eli was the end of his game. OBJ has done nothing since leaving the Giants. What you are saying if he is the best RB in the league. Let him walk . That makes no sense. At all.
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Post by TEM on May 25, 2021 19:59:55 GMT -5
As I have been saying pass protection is low on the skill list on why RBs are signed. It’s a skill nonetheless. One of the biggest touchdowns in franchise history, was done in part to Brandon Jacobs diagnosing the free man, and blocking him. That extra second gave Eli the chance to make the game winning touchdown in Super Bowl XLII. Yet the GM and HC felt it was not that important.
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Post by Kruunch on May 25, 2021 20:03:17 GMT -5
I know what I said. I don’t want to resign Barkley, so what? I’m one of many who feel the same way. Why invest a lot of money into a running back? A running back who has had two injuries to his legs. You on the other hand want to reward him, on his valiant effort of a story you concocted. With his two all pro seasons and super bowl victory. What was it that you said? “Football is an entertainment business, by losing your best performer you won’t fill the house.” That’s been disproved since the days of leather helmets. Fans will go to the games regardless if Barkley, or any other player isn’t there. Did the world stop revolving when Eli Manning retired? Or when Beckham got traded? No, players come and go, the team continues to stand. If he plays at high level for the next 2 seasons you are damn right he should be rewarded. So, we’ll be just like the Cowboys. Awesome, looking forward to it.
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Post by Kruunch on May 25, 2021 20:04:56 GMT -5
It’s a skill nonetheless. One of the biggest touchdowns in franchise history, was done in part to Brandon Jacobs diagnosing the free man, and blocking him. That extra second gave Eli the chance to make the game winning touchdown in Super Bowl XLII. Yet the GM and HC felt it was not that important. They did? Show me where Judge and Gettleman stated blocking is not important. You’re speaking for others again..
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Post by Martin on May 25, 2021 20:17:16 GMT -5
The players today are stronger, faster and hit with more impact which = injury. Most RB's today have a shorter shelf life. E. Elliott is good example of a RB who is losing a step and is the 2nd highest paid RB. I think the Giants should avoid that same scenario. Loyalty is all but gone in the modern NFL. After Barkley plays out his contract the Giants can find 3 RB's like they did in their S Bowl wins 07 /11 take the extra money and continue to build the Oline and other areas of need. Barkley is only a star on TV commercials and has not proven anything to me yet. I'm sure there are others who agree and disagree but in the end we all want the Giants to win we just disagree on how that's accomplished.
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Post by Jomo on May 25, 2021 20:23:45 GMT -5
Oh but you are wrong . Unlike the non-addressing the As you say "a pass protecting RB.' They did address the O-line. I just shown my concern in who they addressed it with. Unlikely to paraphrase what you stated .Even if he is exceptional for the next 2 seasons. You want him gone.( I can show your post) I have stated I want to be wrong about the O-line numerous times. Can you say you want to be wrong about Barkley? This the exact phrase you used. "Then we thank him for his services, as we drive him to the airport" I know what I said. I don’t want to resign Barkley, so what? I’m one of many who feel the same way. Why invest a lot of money into a running back? A running back who has had two injuries to his legs. You on the other hand want to reward him, on his valiant effort of a story you concocted. With his two all pro seasons and super bowl victory. What was it that you said? “Football is an entertainment business, by losing your best performer you won’t fill the house.” That’s been disproved since the days of leather helmets. Fans will go to the games regardless if Barkley, or any other player isn’t there. Did the world stop revolving when Eli Manning retired? Or when Beckham got traded? No, players come and go, the team continues to stand. I like Barkley and am rooting for him but I would never tie up that much cap space on a RB. I wouldn't call RB a secondary position but there are too many other positions to pay top dollar that matter more.....to me.
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Post by TEM on May 25, 2021 20:24:25 GMT -5
Yet the GM and HC felt it was not that important. They did? Show me where Judge and Gettleman stated blocking is not important. You’re speaking for others again.. If they did think it was important. Why sign Booker ?A RB that has trouble pass blocking and let Gallman who could pass block for less money. That logic is easy to decider. I will ask again who is our pass rushing RB? As I said there is a reason we are in more then league average 3rd and longs . It is not because the RB can't block for the reason for lack of success. 3rd and 1 -2 67%............. 3rd and 3-4 52% .................... 3rd 9-10 31%............ 3rd and 15 20% The reason is the more yards you have to go .The smaller the play book is. It is not as you say the RB is predictable. It is the play that is.
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Post by Kruunch on May 26, 2021 9:11:36 GMT -5
They did? Show me where Judge and Gettleman stated blocking is not important. You’re speaking for others again.. If they did think it was important. Why sign Booker ?A RB that has trouble pass blocking and let Gallman who could pass block for less money. That logic is easy to decider. I will ask again who is our pass rushing RB? As I said there is a reason we are in more then league average 3rd and longs . It is not because the RB can't block for the reason for lack of success. 3rd and 1 -2 67%............. 3rd and 3-4 52% .................... 3rd 9-10 31%............ 3rd and 15 20% The reason is the more yards you have to go .The smaller the play book is. It is not as you say the RB is predictable. It is the play that is. Our GM thinks otherwise. He’s been quoted to saying Booker is a “three down back.” Meaning, he can block if need be. Again, I’ve answered this question not once, but twice. Barkley, will be our starting back. Which means, he will be on 3rd downs, and God help Jones will have to block at times. We’ll know right away if the Giants trust him in those situations.
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Post by giantlegacy on May 26, 2021 9:23:48 GMT -5
The players today are stronger, faster and hit with more impact which = injury. Most RB's today have a shorter shelf life. E. Elliott is good example of a RB who is losing a step and is the 2nd highest paid RB. I think the Giants should avoid that same scenario. Loyalty is all but gone in the modern NFL. After Barkley plays out his contract the Giants can find 3 RB's like they did in their S Bowl wins 07 /11 take the extra money and continue to build the Oline and other areas of need. Barkley is only a star on TV commercials and has not proven anything to me yet. I'm sure there are others who agree and disagree but in the end we all want the Giants to win we just disagree on how that's accomplished. Zeke comes across as a bad example because it seems he stopped putting in the 150% effort once he got paid Then again we can't look at Henry either because he is the outleir that has his best year after getting paid because ue has been insanely lucky he hasn't had injuries with his running style (with the caveat he also slimmed down a bit,got quicker somehow and is now willing to make buisness decisions and be picky with who he trucks and when to go down/step out,which will add years on to his career) I'm torn
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Post by Martin on May 26, 2021 10:27:37 GMT -5
The players today are stronger, faster and hit with more impact which = injury. Most RB's today have a shorter shelf life. E. Elliott is good example of a RB who is losing a step and is the 2nd highest paid RB. I think the Giants should avoid that same scenario. Loyalty is all but gone in the modern NFL. After Barkley plays out his contract the Giants can find 3 RB's like they did in their S Bowl wins 07 /11 take the extra money and continue to build the Oline and other areas of need. Barkley is only a star on TV commercials and has not proven anything to me yet. I'm sure there are others who agree and disagree but in the end we all want the Giants to win we just disagree on how that's accomplished. Zeke comes across as a bad example because it seems he stopped putting in the 150% effort once he got paid Then again we can't look at Henry either because he is the outleir that has his best year after getting paid because ue has been insanely lucky he hasn't had injuries with his running style (with the caveat he also slimmed down a bit,got quicker somehow and is now willing to make buisness decisions and be picky with who he trucks and when to go down/step out,which will add years on to his career) I'm torn I think the rule is most RB's either slow down or get injured or both. I think the exceptions are few for longevity. The big price tag is what makes it difficult. If our team was complete and the Giants had the extra money I would be more willing to roll the dice on a star RB.
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Post by imgrate on May 26, 2021 18:33:56 GMT -5
The players today are stronger, faster and hit with more impact which = injury. Most RB's today have a shorter shelf life. E. Elliott is good example of a RB who is losing a step and is the 2nd highest paid RB. I think the Giants should avoid that same scenario. Loyalty is all but gone in the modern NFL. After Barkley plays out his contract the Giants can find 3 RB's like they did in their S Bowl wins 07 /11 take the extra money and continue to build the Oline and other areas of need. Barkley is only a star on TV commercials and has not proven anything to me yet. I'm sure there are others who agree and disagree but in the end we all want the Giants to win we just disagree on how that's accomplished. Zeke comes across as a bad example because it seems he stopped putting in the 150% effort once he got paid Then again we can't look at Henry either because he is the outleir that has his best year after getting paid because ue has been insanely lucky he hasn't had injuries with his running style (with the caveat he also slimmed down a bit,got quicker somehow and is now willing to make buisness decisions and be picky with who he trucks and when to go down/step out,which will add years on to his career) I'm torn Name one running back in the say last 15 years that got paid top 5 guaranteed money at the time (for a rb) and proved worthy of the contract. You'll find that the list is very very small. That said, Barkley is his own guy and correlation doesn't mean causation. I care more about impact on the game and don't think the cap space is worth the impact that a top RB provides/takes up, respectively.
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Post by imgrate on May 26, 2021 18:39:35 GMT -5
On a somewhat similar note. If you dedicate too much cap space to a RB, then you're ability to build a good enough OL is reduced. That is a fact. Because we have very manageable dead cap ( well below league average). We can afford to be over league averages ( and we are) on both RBs and o-line. Where do you have the thread/post of the numbers you processed on cap %ages
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Post by Jomo on May 27, 2021 13:42:10 GMT -5
Zeke comes across as a bad example because it seems he stopped putting in the 150% effort once he got paid Then again we can't look at Henry either because he is the outleir that has his best year after getting paid because ue has been insanely lucky he hasn't had injuries with his running style (with the caveat he also slimmed down a bit,got quicker somehow and is now willing to make buisness decisions and be picky with who he trucks and when to go down/step out,which will add years on to his career) I'm torn I think the rule is most RB's either slow down or get injured or both. I think the exceptions are few for longevity. The big price tag is what makes it difficult. If our team was complete and the Giants had the extra money I would be more willing to roll the dice on a star RB. Maybe the market for RBs reflects what you are saying here and the $$ will work for us. I am not counting on it however especially if he bounces back strong this year.
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Post by Martin on May 27, 2021 14:15:49 GMT -5
I think the rule is most RB's either slow down or get injured or both. I think the exceptions are few for longevity. The big price tag is what makes it difficult. If our team was complete and the Giants had the extra money I would be more willing to roll the dice on a star RB. Maybe the market for RBs reflects what you are saying here and the $$ will work for us. I am not counting on it however especially if he bounces back strong this year. I want him to do great. However I am a Giants fan before a Barkley fan and the future of the team comes first. Your an old dog like me so we both go back to the days of player loyalty but the new NFL doesn't account for loyalty. I never had a problem with RB by committee it's actually better IMO.
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Post by TEM on May 28, 2021 8:27:31 GMT -5
That is a fact. Because we have very manageable dead cap ( well below league average). We can afford to be over league averages ( and we are) on both RBs and o-line. Where do you have the thread/post of the numbers you processed on cap %ages thegiantsboard.proboards.com/thread/8220/change-concept-on-team-buildingoverthecap.com/positional-spending/Here are this seasons spending pre-51. (90 man roster) The numbers will change slightly after the roster is finalized. Cap $185,000,000 Roll over $4,801,375 3% of the cap extra Total money to spend $189,801,375 All percentages are rounded Offence:QB: $9,212,288 5% of the cap RB: $17,483,820 10% of the cap WR: $22,022,790 12% of the cap TE : $16,165,500 9% of the cap OL: $32,046,326 17% of the cap Offensive total spending $96,930,724 52.4 % of the cap ( the 3% roll over) Defense:DL: $22,704,598 12% of the cap Edge: $11,405,520 7% of the cap LB : $12,628,988 7% of the cap S : $17,639,771 10% of the cap CB : $27,948,580 15% of the cap Total Defensive spending $92,327,457. 50% of the cap Dead, Special teams and Unused $20,261,006. 11% of the cap Top 51 $169,585,369 total cap liabilities $189,346,175 ( 51) 90 man Roster overages $21,021,834 11% Summery: league average for playoff teams 10 wins + Offense:
QB is 5%. league average is 10% ......-5% RB is 10%. league average is 4%............+6% WR is 10%. league average is 10% TE is 9% league average is 5%.............+4% OL is 17% . league average is 15% .... +2% Total Offensive spending is 52% league average is 45%..... +7% ( statistically the more spent = more wins) Defense: DL is 12%. league average is 9% ... +3% Edge is 7%. league average is 11%...- 3% LB is 7% . league average is 7% S is 10% league average is 6% ....+4% CB is 15% league average 9% ....+6% Total Defensive spending is 50% the league average 42% + 8% There is no evidence to equate spending more than 42% increases win totals. But Spend less than 42% lowers win totals. Total Dead, Special teams unused is 11% the league average is 12% ( the lower the number = more wins)
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southerner
Starter
Bearer of Bad News
Posts: 4,209
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Post by southerner on Jun 2, 2021 16:36:46 GMT -5
Oh but you are wrong . Unlike the non-addressing the As you say "a pass protecting RB.' They did address the O-line. I just shown my concern in who they addressed it with. Unlikely to paraphrase what you stated .Even if he is exceptional for the next 2 seasons. You want him gone.( I can show your post) I have stated I want to be wrong about the O-line numerous times. Can you say you want to be wrong about Barkley? This the exact phrase you used. "Then we thank him for his services, as we drive him to the airport" As I have been saying pass protection is low on the skill list on why RBs are signed. Not true....normally if they cannot pass block, they are not signed. The Giants thought they could teach Barkley to pass block....but he is still the worst in the league.
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Post by TEM on Jun 2, 2021 16:56:44 GMT -5
As I have been saying pass protection is low on the skill list on why RBs are signed. Not true....normally if they cannot pass block, they are not signed. The Giants thought they could teach Barkley to pass block....but he is still the worst in the league. Keep telling yourself that.
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Post by jb456 on Jun 3, 2021 14:01:41 GMT -5
Zeke comes across as a bad example because it seems he stopped putting in the 150% effort once he got paid Then again we can't look at Henry either because he is the outleir that has his best year after getting paid because ue has been insanely lucky he hasn't had injuries with his running style (with the caveat he also slimmed down a bit,got quicker somehow and is now willing to make buisness decisions and be picky with who he trucks and when to go down/step out,which will add years on to his career) I'm torn I think the rule is most RB's either slow down or get injured or both. I think the exceptions are few for longevity. The big price tag is what makes it difficult. If our team was complete and the Giants had the extra money I would be more willing to roll the dice on a star RB. I like Barkley and I believe he can improve some facets of his game and become a great player. With that said, the dude is already averaging $8M per year. Usually, teams get a discount during a players rookie contract, the Giants aren't. How much more than $8M is Barkley worth when he has had significant injury and missed a bunch of playing time during his 3 years in the NFL? I can see the Giants getting straight up outbid for his services on the open market. Does anyone see the Giants franchising Barkley when they were questioning whether to use their 5th year option on him?
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Post by Martin on Jun 3, 2021 15:48:40 GMT -5
I think the rule is most RB's either slow down or get injured or both. I think the exceptions are few for longevity. The big price tag is what makes it difficult. If our team was complete and the Giants had the extra money I would be more willing to roll the dice on a star RB. I like Barkley and I believe he can improve some facets of his game and become a great player. With that said, the dude is already averaging $8M per year. Usually, teams get a discount during a players rookie contract, the Giants aren't. How much more than $8M is Barkley worth when he has had significant injury and missed a bunch of playing time during his 3 years in the NFL? I can see the Giants getting straight up outbid for his services on the open market. Does anyone see the Giants franchising Barkley when they were questioning whether to use their 5th year option on him? I'm with you on this. I like Barkley too but its a bad business decision which means John Mara will find away to sign him. Tagging him makes no sense when you can keep adding road graders on the oline and find 3 cheaper solutions at RB.
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