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Post by Jomo on Jun 16, 2021 19:50:33 GMT -5
There were no major red flags concerning Beal. In fact, his coaches raved about him. Western Michigan HC Tim Lester called him the best cover corner he ever coached. He came into the league at 6' 1" 192 lbs. Adoree Jackson is 5' 11" 182 lbs. He needed to add strength, but that's clearly an NFL frame. It didn't work out for him, but it's not worth obsessing over. You would draft any player in the 3rd round that was considered a higher round talent. Western Michigans best cover corner back ever? Thats worth a hot dog, pretzel and a soda. Well, its a shame they dont bring in better players. Perhaps that would actually mean something. Difference between Adoree Jackson and Beal is talent, both are undersized. Beal never played anywhere close to 190, bulking up and then not having the supporting frame = injuries. Adoree is a freak athlete who also gets injured too much. Not sure what your point was here. Mike, you're reluctance to ever admit Gettlemen made any mistake on evals is becoming legendary. You'd rather pretend third round picks are worth little to validate your thoughts. God bless Joe Judge. For the record, Jerry Reese's 3rd round picks from 2011 forward are as follows: Jerrel Jernigan Adrien Robinson D'Amontre Moore Jay Bromley Ohdigizuwa Darien Thompson Davis Webb THAT, boys and girls is a heaping helping of crap!
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Post by McCherry on Jun 16, 2021 20:14:01 GMT -5
There were no major red flags concerning Beal. In fact, his coaches raved about him. Western Michigan HC Tim Lester called him the best cover corner he ever coached. He came into the league at 6' 1" 192 lbs. Adoree Jackson is 5' 11" 182 lbs. He needed to add strength, but that's clearly an NFL frame. It didn't work out for him, but it's not worth obsessing over. You would draft any player in the 3rd round that was considered a higher round talent. Western Michigans best cover corner back ever? Thats worth a hot dog, pretzel and a soda. Well, its a shame they dont bring in better players. Perhaps that would actually mean something. Difference between Adoree Jackson and Beal is talent, both are undersized. Beal never played anywhere close to 190, bulking up and then not having the supporting frame = injuries. Adoree is a freak athlete who also gets injured too much. Not sure what your point was here. Mike, you're reluctance to ever admit Gettlemen made any mistake on evals is becoming legendary. You'd rather pretend third round picks are worth little to validate your thoughts. God bless Joe Judge. That Beal clearly has an NFL frame for an outside CB. He’s virtually the same size as Jalen Ramsay, Stephon Gilmore, Jaire Alexander who are 3 of the best CB's in the NFL. I never compared their talent. I also never said anything about Gettleman never making mistakes, that's not the discussion. I'm questioning the obsession over a selection most of us here thought was a worthwhile risk at the time... Jeez, it's a third round pick, Beal is exactly the type of player those picks are for.
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Post by Roswell on Jun 17, 2021 6:08:45 GMT -5
It doesn’t seem like Beal ever wanted to be a professional football player. I wish him luck at his next job.
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Post by Kruunch on Jun 17, 2021 10:59:36 GMT -5
It doesn’t seem like Beal ever wanted to be a professional football player. I wish him luck at his next job. I’m sure he can find a good profession with his skills and expertise. He could be a doormat.
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Post by jb456 on Jun 17, 2021 15:44:22 GMT -5
It doesn’t seem like Beal ever wanted to be a professional football player. I wish him luck at his next job. I’m sure he can find a good profession with his skills and expertise. He could be a doormat. Technically, Beal made the Giants his doormat. Beal has already collected about $2M in cash (Doesn't include his 2021 salary) for a little over 3 years of not doing anything... $2M for sitting on your ass and pretending to be a football player, not bad....
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Post by moecoastie on Jun 17, 2021 16:13:39 GMT -5
I’m sure he can find a good profession with his skills and expertise. He could be a doormat. Technically, Beal made the Giants his doormat. Beal has already collected about $2M in cash (Doesn't include his 2021 salary) for a little over 3 years of not doing anything... $2M for sitting on your ass and pretending to be a football player, not bad.... I hear he may have to return the money he collected last year after opting out if he doesnt make the roster this year Still a lot of money for nothing
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Post by Kruunch on Jun 17, 2021 16:21:03 GMT -5
I’m sure he can find a good profession with his skills and expertise. He could be a doormat. Technically, Beal made the Giants his doormat. Beal has already collected about $2M in cash (Doesn't include his 2021 salary) for a little over 3 years of not doing anything... $2M for sitting on your ass and pretending to be a football player, not bad.... With taxes and agent fees, Beal is taking home pocket change compared to the average NFL salary. The Giants should pay the rest of his contract in dimes and nickels.
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Post by thetruth on Jun 17, 2021 17:57:30 GMT -5
Western Michigans best cover corner back ever? Thats worth a hot dog, pretzel and a soda. Well, its a shame they dont bring in better players. Perhaps that would actually mean something. Difference between Adoree Jackson and Beal is talent, both are undersized. Beal never played anywhere close to 190, bulking up and then not having the supporting frame = injuries. Adoree is a freak athlete who also gets injured too much. Not sure what your point was here. Mike, you're reluctance to ever admit Gettlemen made any mistake on evals is becoming legendary. You'd rather pretend third round picks are worth little to validate your thoughts. God bless Joe Judge. For the record, Jerry Reese's 3rd round picks from 2011 forward are as follows: Jerrel Jernigan Adrien Robinson D'Amontre Moore Jay Bromley Ohdigizuwa Darien Thompson Davis Webb THAT, boys and girls is a heaping helping of crap! Reese's teams were good, though. Because of this, his average draft position was ~20th. Gettlemens is ~10th. A massive difference in value i'm sure you can compute. Also, compare the draft picks between the two despite the difference in value. What do you get? Third rounders that is (dont both with round 1, Gettlemen doesn't really do well there) In term of bringing the great JR into the conversation. All I have for you is the: (as Patrick Roy once so eloquently put): "“I could not hear what they say about me, my rings were stuffed in my ears.” When Gettlemens teams win something, come back to me.
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Post by thetruth on Jun 17, 2021 18:02:29 GMT -5
Western Michigans best cover corner back ever? Thats worth a hot dog, pretzel and a soda. Well, its a shame they dont bring in better players. Perhaps that would actually mean something. Difference between Adoree Jackson and Beal is talent, both are undersized. Beal never played anywhere close to 190, bulking up and then not having the supporting frame = injuries. Adoree is a freak athlete who also gets injured too much. Not sure what your point was here. Mike, you're reluctance to ever admit Gettlemen made any mistake on evals is becoming legendary. You'd rather pretend third round picks are worth little to validate your thoughts. God bless Joe Judge. That Beal clearly has an NFL frame for an outside CB. He’s virtually the same size as Jalen Ramsay, Stephon Gilmore, Jaire Alexander who are 3 of the best CB's in the NFL. I never compared their talent. I also never said anything about Gettleman never making mistakes, that's not the discussion. I'm questioning the obsession over a selection most of us here thought was a worthwhile risk at the time... Jeez, it's a third round pick, Beal is exactly the type of player those picks are for. Does he though? no one (Except you and Dave Gettlemen) believed he played at anything close to 190lbs he did at his individual pro day. He doesn't have the frame to carry it, and it showed with how many games he's played at a pro. Its also the main reason why no GM in the league submitted anything higher than a 4th round offer for Beal. Well, there was ONE GM who thought he was smarter than the rest. Guess who? And if this was the only dumb thing he did back in 2018 you could get a pass. This is the least dumb thing he did that year and its.. pretty dumb.
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Post by McCherry on Jun 17, 2021 18:25:26 GMT -5
That Beal clearly has an NFL frame for an outside CB. He’s virtually the same size as Jalen Ramsay, Stephon Gilmore, Jaire Alexander who are 3 of the best CB's in the NFL. I never compared their talent. I also never said anything about Gettleman never making mistakes, that's not the discussion. I'm questioning the obsession over a selection most of us here thought was a worthwhile risk at the time... Jeez, it's a third round pick, Beal is exactly the type of player those picks are for. Does he though? no one (Except you and Dave Gettlemen) believed he played at anything close to 190lbs he did at his individual pro day. He doesn't have the frame to carry it, and it showed with how many games he's played at a pro. Its also the main reason why no GM in the league submitted anything higher than a 4th round offer for Beal. Well, there was ONE GM who thought he was smarter than the rest. Guess who? And if this was the only dumb thing he did back in 2018 you could get a pass. This is the least dumb thing he did that year and its.. pretty dumb. He's the same size as the best CB's in football. I didn't read anything from the draft reports about not having an NFL frame. We can agree he was a huge bust. But he was a promising prospect that nobody criticized the move when the Giants acquired him. The only negative at the time was that he came from the supplemental draft. If it had been a first or second, then we have something to really complain about. My point is that Beal was as much of a crap shoot as any 3rd round pick.
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Post by Jomo on Jun 17, 2021 19:27:07 GMT -5
For the record, Jerry Reese's 3rd round picks from 2011 forward are as follows: Jerrel Jernigan Adrien Robinson D'Amontre Moore Jay Bromley Ohdigizuwa Darien Thompson Davis Webb THAT, boys and girls is a heaping helping of crap! Reese's teams were good, though. Because of this, his average draft position was ~20th. Gettlemens is ~10th. A massive difference in value i'm sure you can compute. Also, compare the draft picks between the two despite the difference in value. What do you get? Third rounders that is (dont both with round 1, Gettlemen doesn't really do well there) In term of bringing the great JR into the conversation. All I have for you is the: (as Patrick Roy once so eloquently put): "“I could not hear what they say about me, my rings were stuffed in my ears.” When Gettlemens teams win something, come back to me. LOL , that's all you've got. I called that list a heaping help of crap and you said the difference between drafting at 10 vs 20 in the third round is huge........no, I can't compute that. How about commenting on the list?
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Post by jb456 on Jun 17, 2021 19:29:40 GMT -5
Technically, Beal made the Giants his doormat. Beal has already collected about $2M in cash (Doesn't include his 2021 salary) for a little over 3 years of not doing anything... $2M for sitting on your ass and pretending to be a football player, not bad.... With taxes and agent fees, Beal is taking home pocket change compared to the average NFL salary. The Giants should pay the rest of his contract in dimes and nickels. True, he probably pocketed like 1.1M. **** dimes and nickles. Pay him in unrolled pennies ...
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Post by TCHOF on Jun 17, 2021 20:30:41 GMT -5
Does he though? no one (Except you and Dave Gettlemen) believed he played at anything close to 190lbs he did at his individual pro day. He doesn't have the frame to carry it, and it showed with how many games he's played at a pro. Its also the main reason why no GM in the league submitted anything higher than a 4th round offer for Beal. Well, there was ONE GM who thought he was smarter than the rest. Guess who? And if this was the only dumb thing he did back in 2018 you could get a pass. This is the least dumb thing he did that year and its.. pretty dumb. He's the same size as the best CB's in football. I didn't read anything from the draft reports about not having an NFL frame. We can agree he was a huge bust. But he was a promising prospect that nobody criticized the move when the Giants acquired him. The only negative at the time was that he came from the supplemental draft. If it had been a first or second, then we have something to really complain about. My point is that Beal was as much of a crap shoot as any 3rd round pick. Clap Clap Clap Yay Getty!
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Post by Morehead State on Jun 17, 2021 21:45:16 GMT -5
Reese's teams were good, though. Because of this, his average draft position was ~20th. Gettlemens is ~10th. A massive difference in value i'm sure you can compute. Also, compare the draft picks between the two despite the difference in value. What do you get? Third rounders that is (dont both with round 1, Gettlemen doesn't really do well there) In term of bringing the great JR into the conversation. All I have for you is the: (as Patrick Roy once so eloquently put): "“I could not hear what they say about me, my rings were stuffed in my ears.” When Gettlemens teams win something, come back to me. LOL , that's all you've got. I called that list a heaping help of crap and you said the difference between drafting at 10 vs 20 in the third round is huge........no, I can't compute that. How about commenting on the list? You would be surprised at how many team's list of 3rd round picks are a heaping help of crap.
A GM's job is to provide the coaches the players to win games. So far Dave has failed miserably. JR, for all the "lists" you can come up with, won 2 SB's as the Giants GM.
The list of players he drafted and signed who helped us win those SB's, is much longer than your list.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2021 7:03:22 GMT -5
He's the same size as the best CB's in football. I didn't read anything from the draft reports about not having an NFL frame. We can agree he was a huge bust. But he was a promising prospect that nobody criticized the move when the Giants acquired him. The only negative at the time was that he came from the supplemental draft. If it had been a first or second, then we have something to really complain about. My point is that Beal was as much of a crap shoot as any 3rd round pick. Clap Clap Clap Yay Getty! He's keeping the trend going for the Giants with all these bad 3rd round choices.. Really hope Peart is the outlier who changes that!!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2021 7:04:12 GMT -5
LOL , that's all you've got. I called that list a heaping help of crap and you said the difference between drafting at 10 vs 20 in the third round is huge........no, I can't compute that. How about commenting on the list? You would be surprised at how many team's list of 3rd round picks are a heaping help of crap.
A GM's job is to provide the coaches the players to win games. So far Dave has failed miserably. JR, for all the "lists" you can come up with, won 2 SB's as the Giants GM.
The list of players he drafted and signed who helped us win those SB's, is much longer than your list.
Crazy how some will keep defending Getty while bashing Reese..
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Post by thetruth on Jun 18, 2021 13:00:08 GMT -5
Reese's teams were good, though. Because of this, his average draft position was ~20th. Gettlemens is ~10th. A massive difference in value i'm sure you can compute. Also, compare the draft picks between the two despite the difference in value. What do you get? Third rounders that is (dont both with round 1, Gettlemen doesn't really do well there) In term of bringing the great JR into the conversation. All I have for you is the: (as Patrick Roy once so eloquently put): "“I could not hear what they say about me, my rings were stuffed in my ears.” When Gettlemens teams win something, come back to me. LOL , that's all you've got.I called that list a heaping help of crap and you said the difference between drafting at 10 vs 20 in the third round is huge........no, I can't compute that. How about commenting on the list? What more do you need. Winning matters, loser's are, well, losers. Which is exactly what we've been under your friend Gettlemen. JR has rings as a GM. Those were his teams and despite misses at the end of the third round we were generally considered a great team under his tenure. Why? he largely hit on first/second round picks in valued positions. Interesting, isn't it? Your list shows that the Giants didn't draft third round picks well. It doesn't mean these picks are without value, you cant throw them out like that and literally no other GM in NFL offered anything more than a 4th for Beal, Gettlemen thought he pulled a fast one and fell on his face. Thats pretty unique.
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Post by McCherry on Jun 18, 2021 13:05:53 GMT -5
LOL , that's all you've got.I called that list a heaping help of crap and you said the difference between drafting at 10 vs 20 in the third round is huge........no, I can't compute that. How about commenting on the list? What more do you need. Winning matters, loser's are, well, losers. Which is exactly what we've been under your friend Gettlemen. JR has rings as a GM. Those were his teams and despite misses at the end of the third round we were generally considered a great team under his tenure. Why? he largely hit on first/second round picks in valued positions. Interesting, isn't it? Your list shows that the Giants didn't draft third round picks well. It doesn't mean these picks are without value, you cant throw them out like that and literally no other GM in NFL offered anything more than a 4th for Beal, Gettlemen thought he pulled a fast one and fell on his face. Thats pretty unique. And couldn't buy his way back into a front office job.
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Post by jb456 on Jun 18, 2021 16:48:10 GMT -5
What more do you need. Winning matters, loser's are, well, losers. Which is exactly what we've been under your friend Gettlemen. JR has rings as a GM. Those were his teams and despite misses at the end of the third round we were generally considered a great team under his tenure. Why? he largely hit on first/second round picks in valued positions. Interesting, isn't it? Your list shows that the Giants didn't draft third round picks well. It doesn't mean these picks are without value, you cant throw them out like that and literally no other GM in NFL offered anything more than a 4th for Beal, Gettlemen thought he pulled a fast one and fell on his face. Thats pretty unique. And couldn't buy his way back into a front office job. Reese went scorched earth with the FA class in 2016 and the previous 5 years of drafts were horrible, with the exception of like 3 players (OBJ included). He drove the Giants into the ground and hamstrung them with big contracts on the way out. It's no wonder why he didn't get another job. I'm wondering if he even got an interview with how bad he left the Giants...
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Post by Kruunch on Jun 18, 2021 17:07:10 GMT -5
And couldn't buy his way back into a front office job. Reese went scorched earth with the FA class in 2016 and the previous 5 years of drafts were horrible, with the exception of like 3 players (OBJ included). He drove the Giants into the ground and hamstrung them with big contracts on the way out. It's no wonder why he didn't get another job. I'm wondering if he even got an interview with how bad he left the Giants... The Raiders were interested in him. And he turned down an interview, I’m guessing he didn’t want to be Jon Grudens gopher. I was extremely tough on Reese at the tail end of his tenure. However, I’m also not blind to see he did do a lot of good here. He took the reigns from Accorsi and rode that ship till it sunk. Two championships later, his name is now mud around here. Which I find hypocritical. Reese for all the bad he’s done. He was our GM when we won Super Bowls. It wasn’t Ernie, and it sure as shit wasn’t Dave Gettleman. Jerry Reese was the man in charge in building our roster. And for the most part, he did a good job of it. It just all went to shit at once. And he’s still paying for it to this day.
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Post by jb456 on Jun 18, 2021 18:18:05 GMT -5
Reese went scorched earth with the FA class in 2016 and the previous 5 years of drafts were horrible, with the exception of like 3 players (OBJ included). He drove the Giants into the ground and hamstrung them with big contracts on the way out. It's no wonder why he didn't get another job. I'm wondering if he even got an interview with how bad he left the Giants... The Raiders were interested in him. And he turned down an interview, I’m guessing he didn’t want to be Jon Grudens gopher. I was extremely tough on Reese at the tail end of his tenure. However, I’m also not blind to see he did do a lot of good here. He took the reigns from Accorsi and rode that ship till it sunk. Two championships later, his name is now mud around here. Which I find hypocritical. Reese for all the bad he’s done. He was our GM when we won Super Bowls. It wasn’t Ernie, and it sure as shit wasn’t Dave Gettleman. Jerry Reese was the man in charge in building our roster. And for the most part, he did a good job of it. It just all went to shit at once. And he’s still paying for it to this day. I agree. You can't totally discount Reese's resume but the Giant's were bad to average during the last 5 years with 1 playoff game. It's just that he ended so bad, left a bad taste in my mouth... When was that interview offer?
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Post by Kruunch on Jun 18, 2021 18:35:16 GMT -5
The Raiders were interested in him. And he turned down an interview, I’m guessing he didn’t want to be Jon Grudens gopher. I was extremely tough on Reese at the tail end of his tenure. However, I’m also not blind to see he did do a lot of good here. He took the reigns from Accorsi and rode that ship till it sunk. Two championships later, his name is now mud around here. Which I find hypocritical. Reese for all the bad he’s done. He was our GM when we won Super Bowls. It wasn’t Ernie, and it sure as shit wasn’t Dave Gettleman. Jerry Reese was the man in charge in building our roster. And for the most part, he did a good job of it. It just all went to shit at once. And he’s still paying for it to this day. I agree. You can't totally discount Reese's resume but the Giant's were bad to average during the last 5 years with 1 playoff game. It's just that he ended so bad, left a bad taste in my mouth... When was that interview offer? You don’t have to tell me. Ever brush your teeth and then have a cup of orange juice? That’s what Reese left us with. The bitter taste of defeat. He was offered an interview December of ‘18. I’m sure he saw the writing on the wall. Jon Gruden got a life time contract worth $100 million dollars. Gruden is the head coach, GM, and offensive coordinator. For a bug to be swatted at the Raiders facility, Gruden has to ok it. What GM not named Mike Mayock would take a job being a human ottoman? I’m sure if the right opportunity arises, he will throw his hat back into the ring.
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Post by TEM on Jun 18, 2021 18:58:42 GMT -5
I agree. You can't totally discount Reese's resume but the Giant's were bad to average during the last 5 years with 1 playoff game. It's just that he ended so bad, left a bad taste in my mouth... When was that interview offer? You don’t have to tell me. Ever brush your teeth and then have a cup of orange juice? That’s what Reese left us with. The bitter taste of defeat. He was offered an interview December of ‘18. I’m sure he saw the writing on the wall. Jon Gruden got a life time contract worth $100 million dollars. Gruden is the head coach, GM, and offensive coordinator. For a bug to be swatted at the Raiders facility, Gruden has to ok it. What GM not named Mike Mayock would take a job being a human ottoman? I’m sure if the right opportunity arises, he will throw his hat back into the ring. That is liking getting a bad PSA test like I did this past month .You get all freaked out thinking you have cancer. Then the doctor tells you to get another test to see if the result can be duplicated. The second test comes back normal. When lad techs screw up . It can mess you up for a few days.
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Post by McCherry on Jun 18, 2021 19:34:59 GMT -5
I agree. You can't totally discount Reese's resume but the Giant's were bad to average during the last 5 years with 1 playoff game. It's just that he ended so bad, left a bad taste in my mouth... When was that interview offer? You don’t have to tell me. Ever brush your teeth and then have a cup of orange juice? That’s what Reese left us with. The bitter taste of defeat. He was offered an interview December of ‘18. I’m sure he saw the writing on the wall. Jon Gruden got a life time contract worth $100 million dollars. Gruden is the head coach, GM, and offensive coordinator. For a bug to be swatted at the Raiders facility, Gruden has to ok it. What GM not named Mike Mayock would take a job being a human ottoman? I’m sure if the right opportunity arises, he will throw his hat back into the ring. He tried this offseason. There were what, 7 openings? And he didn't get a sniff. The closest Reese will ever get to another NFL team is in the bleachers. (Doing my best Kruunch impersonation there)
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Post by Kruunch on Jun 18, 2021 19:51:08 GMT -5
You don’t have to tell me. Ever brush your teeth and then have a cup of orange juice? That’s what Reese left us with. The bitter taste of defeat. He was offered an interview December of ‘18. I’m sure he saw the writing on the wall. Jon Gruden got a life time contract worth $100 million dollars. Gruden is the head coach, GM, and offensive coordinator. For a bug to be swatted at the Raiders facility, Gruden has to ok it. What GM not named Mike Mayock would take a job being a human ottoman? I’m sure if the right opportunity arises, he will throw his hat back into the ring. He tried this offseason. There were what, 7 openings? And he didn't get a sniff. The closest Reese will ever get to another NFL team is in the bleachers. (Doing my best Kruunch impersonation there) He got a sniff. Got a Jaguars interview for the vacant GM position. That sniff turned out to be a fart in the wind. The closest Reese will ever get to another NFL team is by driving by the stadium.
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Post by thetruth on Jun 19, 2021 7:21:51 GMT -5
What more do you need. Winning matters, loser's are, well, losers. Which is exactly what we've been under your friend Gettlemen. JR has rings as a GM. Those were his teams and despite misses at the end of the third round we were generally considered a great team under his tenure. Why? he largely hit on first/second round picks in valued positions. Interesting, isn't it? Your list shows that the Giants didn't draft third round picks well. It doesn't mean these picks are without value, you cant throw them out like that and literally no other GM in NFL offered anything more than a 4th for Beal, Gettlemen thought he pulled a fast one and fell on his face. Thats pretty unique. And couldn't buy his way back into a front office job. Yeah, thats fine. He's got two chips. Two more than your boy DG will ever have. Let that settle in Mike.
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Post by GameTime on Jun 19, 2021 10:04:43 GMT -5
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Post by McCherry on Jun 19, 2021 10:23:04 GMT -5
And couldn't buy his way back into a front office job. Yeah, thats fine. He's got two chips. Two more than your boy DG will ever have. Let that settle in Mike. There is no sense in comparing them. Ultimately, both have failed in rebuilding the team. Although I feel better about this team after 3 years than I did about Reese. Dave also got a job after his first stint, why hasn't Reese with his 2 rings? Accorsi was still better than both.
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Post by Kruunch on Jun 19, 2021 13:43:12 GMT -5
Gettleman doesn’t need that. He has the next best thing. Four computer folks who all have reached Wizard level in Dungeons & Dragons.
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Post by Jomo on Jun 19, 2021 15:31:28 GMT -5
LOL , that's all you've got. I called that list a heaping help of crap and you said the difference between drafting at 10 vs 20 in the third round is huge........no, I can't compute that. How about commenting on the list? You would be surprised at how many team's list of 3rd round picks are a heaping help of crap.
A GM's job is to provide the coaches the players to win games. So far Dave has failed miserably. JR, for all the "lists" you can come up with, won 2 SB's as the Giants GM.
The list of players he drafted and signed who helped us win those SB's, is much longer than your list.
Reese didn't win 2 SBs.. He was the GM for a team that won 2 SB during his reign. That is something of an accomplishment but not at the top of the heap behind the HC, players, star players and probably a coordinator. I would put the GM, JR in this case, ahead of the owner. An owner can screw up a team but his upside impact toward SB is not more impactful than a GM imo.
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