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Post by TEM on Sept 24, 2021 17:13:52 GMT -5
25 teams passed on Ray Lewis in that draft and Warren Sapp and Randy Moss and Brady and, as Singer/Songwriter Stephen Bishop once sang, "On and On." We can play that game until we are blue in the face. No kidding. Point was, we missed on him. Who cares about those other teams? We missed on Joe Montana too and every other player we never drafted. So what is your point? I fail to see any relevance.
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Post by Kruunch on Sept 24, 2021 17:17:02 GMT -5
No kidding. Point was, we missed on him. Who cares about those other teams? We missed on Joe Montana too and every other player we never drafted. So what is your point? I fail to see any relevance. It relates to Parsons and Slater. Two players, we could of had. Poor decisions result in poor teams. Cowboys and Chargers are ecstatic over their young talented players. Us? We’re discussing Toney’s Twitter page. Again, we will see what teams were smart, and what teams got caught with their pants down.
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Post by TEM on Sept 24, 2021 17:17:59 GMT -5
It has nothing to do with this years deal. None of it. Years of losing. And we’re still focusing on the future over the present. That is not true .if it was we would have punted all of our picks and not went bank in the offseason . You assumption is correct why?
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Post by leonperry on Sept 24, 2021 17:18:56 GMT -5
have to admit that before the season began I was hoping that he would do well enough to get some kind of haul at the trade deadline... whatever the value of rb's relative to other positions, or lack of value as the case may be, some ppl are acting like he is practically worthless and you couldn't get anything good for him.
What constitutes "good" for this team might be open for debate so I'll just say I would consider it and leave it at that, esp depending on how the O is shaping up
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Post by piddy283 on Sept 24, 2021 17:19:17 GMT -5
As an advocate of the draft pick, and as a huge Barkley fan, this is actually a very interesting question. I still believe Barkley will bounce back if he remains healthy, but there are few positions more important than a pass rusher and we lack at that position. You can also insert OT or OG in this question, in my opinion.
Playing in only two games since his injury, which still typically takes two years to get back to 100% physically and mentally, I'd hold tight with Barkley at this point. I still think he's a rare talent who can be a complete game changer offensively.
If he still looks shook later in the year, this question becomes even more interesting. Even as a fan, I'd have a hard time extending his contract. Especially at top dollar.
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Post by Kruunch on Sept 24, 2021 17:21:16 GMT -5
Years of losing. And we’re still focusing on the future over the present. That is not true .if it was we would have punted all of our picks and not went bank in the offseason . You assumption is correct why? Let’s focus on the now. Next year is irrelevant. How’s our 1st round pick looking? And be objective. No, let’s wait and see approach. Give it to me straight. As a fan, how do you feel? We have been the worst team in the sport for years. And yet, we still continue this idea that “next year” is our goal to finally put it in place. Well, next year is now. We have a lot of men in this franchise that their jobs depend on this years success.
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Post by TEM on Sept 24, 2021 17:21:56 GMT -5
We missed on Joe Montana too and every other player we never drafted. So what is your point? I fail to see any relevance. It relates to Parsons and Slater. Two players, we could of had. Poor decisions result in poor teams. Cowboys and Chargers are ecstatic over their young talented players. Us? We’re discussing Toney’s Twitter page. Again, we will see what teams were smart, and what teams got caught with their pants down. I still fail to see the relevance to us missing on Ray Lewis and moving down in this years draft. That is what I asked you for.
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Post by TEM on Sept 24, 2021 17:25:20 GMT -5
That is not true .if it was we would have punted all of our picks and not went bank in the offseason . You assumption is correct why? Let’s focus on the now. Next year is irrelevant. How’s our 1st round pick looking? And be objective. No, let’s wait and see approach. Give it to me straight. As a fan, how do you feel? We have been the worst team in the sport for years. And yet, we still continue this idea that “next year” is our goal to finally put it in place. Well, next year is now. We have a lot of men in this franchise that their jobs depend on this years success. Why is it? Are you really implying we should have traded next years picks so we could have gotten more this year? Because that is exactly what next year is irrelevent means.
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Post by Kruunch on Sept 24, 2021 17:26:39 GMT -5
It relates to Parsons and Slater. Two players, we could of had. Poor decisions result in poor teams. Cowboys and Chargers are ecstatic over their young talented players. Us? We’re discussing Toney’s Twitter page. Again, we will see what teams were smart, and what teams got caught with their pants down. I still fail to see the relevance to us missing on Ray Lewis and moving down in this years draft. That is what I asked you for. Persons and Slater were available. We didn’t have to trade a thing to get them. They were sitting there in their nice suits looking at their cell phones. We got a desperate team on the phone, and traded back. Looks good on paper, extra 1st round pick. And this so called “electric” receiver. As of now, remember. It’s all we can discuss with facts to back it. We look like a team that got called out looking. The Ray Lewis comparison was similar. We drafted a player who was blind in one eye, and missed out on a generational type talent. Yeah, half the league missed it, just like Randy Moss, and many other players. Point has always been is. As scouts, general managers, all the brain trust of the organization. Has to do better. This is a game of inches for a reason. Make the wrong choices, you get set back. Make the right ones, and you win more than you lose. We haven’t been the worst team for no reason.
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Post by Kruunch on Sept 24, 2021 17:30:07 GMT -5
Let’s focus on the now. Next year is irrelevant. How’s our 1st round pick looking? And be objective. No, let’s wait and see approach. Give it to me straight. As a fan, how do you feel? We have been the worst team in the sport for years. And yet, we still continue this idea that “next year” is our goal to finally put it in place. Well, next year is now. We have a lot of men in this franchise that their jobs depend on this years success. Why is it? Are you really implying we should have traded next years picks so we could have gotten more this year? Because that is exactly what next year is irrelevent means. Not once did I imply or say that.
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Post by TEM on Sept 24, 2021 17:34:27 GMT -5
I still fail to see the relevance to us missing on Ray Lewis and moving down in this years draft. That is what I asked you for. Persons and Slater were available. We didn’t have to trade a thing to get them. They were sitting there in their nice suits looking at their cell phones. We got a desperate team on the phone, and traded back. Looks good on paper, extra 1st round pick. And this so called “electric” receiver. As of now, remember. It’s all we can discuss with facts to back it. We look like a team that got called out looking. The Ray Lewis comparison was similar. We drafted a player who was blind in one eye, and missed out on a generational type talent. Yeah, half the league missed it, just like Randy Moss, and many other players. Point has always been is. As scouts, general managers, all the brain trust of the organization. Has to do better. This is a game of inches for a reason. Make the wrong choices, you get set back. Make the right ones, and you win more than you lose. We haven’t been the worst team for no reason. So was Joe Montana , Tom Brady, Reggie White. Michael Irving Randal McDaniel ........... Should I name the other 1000 besides Ray Lewis you did not cheery pick. Or every other draft you failed to mention this "we missed so and so" in previous seasons.
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Post by Kruunch on Sept 24, 2021 17:36:35 GMT -5
Persons and Slater were available. We didn’t have to trade a thing to get them. They were sitting there in their nice suits looking at their cell phones. We got a desperate team on the phone, and traded back. Looks good on paper, extra 1st round pick. And this so called “electric” receiver. As of now, remember. It’s all we can discuss with facts to back it. We look like a team that got called out looking. The Ray Lewis comparison was similar. We drafted a player who was blind in one eye, and missed out on a generational type talent. Yeah, half the league missed it, just like Randy Moss, and many other players. Point has always been is. As scouts, general managers, all the brain trust of the organization. Has to do better. This is a game of inches for a reason. Make the wrong choices, you get set back. Make the right ones, and you win more than you lose. We haven’t been the worst team for no reason. So was Joe Montana , Tom Brady, Reggie White. Michael Irving Randal McDaniel ........... Should I name the other 1000 besides Ray Lewis you did not cheery pick. Or every other draft you failed to mention this "we missed so and so" in previous seasons. There’s only so many times you can miss a point. I can lead a horse to water, but I can’t make him drink. Ray Lewis was an example, a proven one too. Again, 3-5 years from now we’ll see who was right on this one in terms of making the correct moves. Not, they all make mistakes, it happens.
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Post by TEM on Sept 24, 2021 17:42:16 GMT -5
Why is it? Are you really implying we should have traded next years picks so we could have gotten more this year? Because that is exactly what next year is irrelevent means. Not once did I imply or say that. If next year is irrelevent than what are you implying? I don't think I am wrong but irrelevent means doesn't matter. All 32 teams I believe all feel the following season matters. It is called long term strategic planning. Every company I have worked for does it. Are you saying NFL teams do not do this or shouldn't ? How does anyone successfully run a business with that business model? Because I still fail to see the point you are trying to make on why it was wrong to turn 1 first round pick into 2 first round picks.
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Post by Kruunch on Sept 24, 2021 17:44:26 GMT -5
Not once did I imply or say that. If next year is irrelevent than what are you implying? I don't think I am wrong but irrelevent means doesn't matter. All 32 teams I believe all feel the following season matters. It is called long term strategic planning. Every company I have worked for does it. Are you saying NFL teams do not do this or shouldn't ? How does anyone successfully run a business with that business model? Because I still fail to see the point you are trying to make on why it was wrong to turn 1 first round pick into 2 first round picks. Does next year help this year? I’ll answer for you, it doesn’t.
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Post by IrishMike on Sept 24, 2021 17:45:39 GMT -5
So was Joe Montana , Tom Brady, Reggie White. Michael Irving Randal McDaniel ........... Should I name the other 1000 besides Ray Lewis you did not cheery pick. Or every other draft you failed to mention this "we missed so and so" in previous seasons. Clearly only the NY Giants miss on draft picks. DG is the worst, except when he was in Carolina, then he was great because Reese was here and he was the worst. Only the Giants GM misses. If our GM were any good he would have picked the best player in the draft....who is that? The one we past on.
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southerner
Starter
Bearer of Bad News
Posts: 4,216
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Post by southerner on Sept 24, 2021 17:46:29 GMT -5
I'm thinking we would get more from a deal like that than we will from keeping Barkely and hoping he will get back to where he was in season 1.. No question I would make that trade today…..and the Giants would too as each week makes the Saquon pick look worse and worse.
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Post by IrishMike on Sept 24, 2021 17:47:23 GMT -5
If next year is irrelevent than what are you implying? I don't think I am wrong but irrelevent means doesn't matter. All 32 teams I believe all feel the following season matters. It is called long term strategic planning. Every company I have worked for does it. Are you saying NFL teams do not do this or shouldn't ? How does anyone successfully run a business with that business model? Because I still fail to see the point you are trying to make on why it was wrong to turn 1 first round pick into 2 first round picks. Does next year help this year? I’ll answer for you, it doesn’t. Next year not helping this year and next year being irrelevant are not the same thing, you know this. Would you trade all our draft picks in the future for Quitin Nelson on a 1 year contract?
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Post by TEM on Sept 24, 2021 17:47:40 GMT -5
So was Joe Montana , Tom Brady, Reggie White. Michael Irving Randal McDaniel ........... Should I name the other 1000 besides Ray Lewis you did not cheery pick. Or every other draft you failed to mention this "we missed so and so" in previous seasons. There’s only so many times you can miss a point. I can lead a horse to water, but I can’t make him drink. Ray Lewis was an example, a proven one too. Again, 3-5 years from now we’ll see who was right on this one in terms of making the correct moves. Not, they all make mistakes, it happens. So you point is to have season to season business modle. I think not have a long term goal for success is what the Jets do. Hay what ever floats you boat.
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Post by McCherry on Sept 24, 2021 17:48:05 GMT -5
If next year is irrelevent than what are you implying? I don't think I am wrong but irrelevent means doesn't matter. All 32 teams I believe all feel the following season matters. It is called long term strategic planning. Every company I have worked for does it. Are you saying NFL teams do not do this or shouldn't ? How does anyone successfully run a business with that business model? Because I still fail to see the point you are trying to make on why it was wrong to turn 1 first round pick into 2 first round picks. Does next year help this year? I’ll answer for you, it doesn’t. So that makes a first round pick worthless? Ridiculous logic. That could be a top-10 pick, I want to hear you complain about next year's first round pick during next year's draft.
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Post by Kruunch on Sept 24, 2021 17:52:53 GMT -5
Does next year help this year? I’ll answer for you, it doesn’t. Next year not helping this year and next year being irrelevant are not the same thing, you know this. Would you trade all our draft picks in the future for Quitin Nelson on a 1 year contract? You mean a Mike Ditka? No, I wouldn’t. And how is next year not irrelevant to this year? Again, is that extra 1st round pick doing anything for us against Atlanta Sunday?
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Post by TEM on Sept 24, 2021 17:54:43 GMT -5
If next year is irrelevent than what are you implying? I don't think I am wrong but irrelevent means doesn't matter. All 32 teams I believe all feel the following season matters. It is called long term strategic planning. Every company I have worked for does it. Are you saying NFL teams do not do this or shouldn't ? How does anyone successfully run a business with that business model? Because I still fail to see the point you are trying to make on why it was wrong to turn 1 first round pick into 2 first round picks. Does next year help this year? I’ll answer for you, it doesn’t. So here where your one dimensional thinking is flawed. Every year should be a building block for the next. NE won a sting of SBs doing that (trading out of picks) BB moved down numerous times in the past. If you cannot see that . Oh well.
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Post by Kruunch on Sept 24, 2021 17:55:34 GMT -5
Does next year help this year? I’ll answer for you, it doesn’t. So that makes a first round pick worthless? Ridiculous logic. That could be a top-10 pick, I want to hear you complain about next year's first round pick during next year's draft. Who said it’s worthless? Not me, you used that word for sound. This isn’t difficult, next year means what to us today? And try answering the question, instead of walking away from a conversation.
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Post by Kruunch on Sept 24, 2021 17:57:36 GMT -5
Does next year help this year? I’ll answer for you, it doesn’t. So here where your one dimensional thinking is flawed. Every year should be a building block for the next. NE won a sting of SBs doing that (trading out of picks) BB moved down numerous times in the past. If you cannot see that . Oh well. New England won with the best quarterback ever, and best head coach. Many fans here, say Bill Belichick is a lousy general manager. Don’t compare a powerhouse to a team that hasn’t tasted victory in years. That is flawed thinking.
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Post by TEM on Sept 24, 2021 18:04:06 GMT -5
Does next year help this year? I’ll answer for you, it doesn’t. So that makes a first round pick worthless? Ridiculous logic. That could be a top-10 pick, I want to hear you complain about next year's first round pick during next year's draft. Every company as a long term business modle .So do NFL franchise. BB knows drafted players can have failure attached to them. So to minimize the effect o failed draft prospects. He trades a pick for more picks. This is the problem with most fans .They fail to accept 25 out of 100 top10 picks fail. The further down into the draft you go . That failure rate increases exponentially. So BB finds a way to increase his pick count to shave the odds a bit.
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Post by IrishMike on Sept 24, 2021 18:08:45 GMT -5
Next year not helping this year and next year being irrelevant are not the same thing, you know this. Would you trade all our draft picks in the future for Quitin Nelson on a 1 year contract? You mean a Mike Ditka? No, I wouldn’t. And how is next year not irrelevant to this year? Again, is that extra 1st round pick doing anything for us against Atlanta Sunday? Well Slater and Parsons are doing nothing for us against Atlanta but you keep talking about them lol.
This is a perfect example of a strawman argument for anyone interested.
Poster A: "Next years pick is not irrelevant". Poster B: "How does next years pick help us against Atlanta this week",
No one is saying that pick helps us now, you however said "next year is irrelevant" which is what people are disagreeing with. It's not irrelevant and you even admitted it by not being willing to trade all your picks for this season with Nelson. GMs too much make decisions with the future in mind.
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Post by IrishMike on Sept 24, 2021 18:10:39 GMT -5
So here where your one dimensional thinking is flawed. Every year should be a building block for the next. NE won a sting of SBs doing that (trading out of picks) BB moved down numerous times in the past. If you cannot see that . Oh well. New England won with the best quarterback ever, and best head coach. Many fans here, say Bill Belichick is a lousy general manager. Don’t compare a powerhouse to a team that hasn’t tasted victory in years. That is flawed thinking. You didn't say this a few days ago when people were comparing the Chiefs to the Giants....
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Post by TheAnalyst on Sept 24, 2021 18:10:44 GMT -5
Could have had Parsons instead of Toney. If there is any chance Barkley can be Rookie of the Year type Barkley again then we have to keep him but only time will tell. Would be nice to see him start making some great plays again. I was driving that Parsons bus for sometime before the draft. Running over any would be haters that got in my way. Kid can flat out play. Too many teams got caught up with his off the field behavior. He was the #2 on my list talent wise. Lawrence was #1.
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Post by TEM on Sept 24, 2021 18:13:17 GMT -5
So here where your one dimensional thinking is flawed. Every year should be a building block for the next. NE won a sting of SBs doing that (trading out of picks) BB moved down numerous times in the past. If you cannot see that . Oh well. New England won with the best quarterback ever, and best head coach. Many fans here, say Bill Belichick is a lousy general manager. Don’t compare a powerhouse to a team that hasn’t tasted victory in years. That is flawed thinking. Every GM that has ever been a GM in any sport on every continent on the planet would love to be lousy enough to have place 6 trophies in their teams case. If you have to quote idiots to make your point. What more can I say.
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Post by IrishMike on Sept 24, 2021 18:15:37 GMT -5
I was driving that Parsons bus for sometime before the draft. Running over any would be haters that got in my way. Kid can flat out play. Too many teams got caught up with his off the field behavior. He was the #2 on my list talent wise. Lawrence was #1. Talent wise yes, but I think you were dead set against taking him. Of course I could be mistaken. Lots of people liked his talent but didn't want us to take him because of the allegations.
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Post by IrishMike on Sept 24, 2021 18:18:20 GMT -5
New England won with the best quarterback ever, and best head coach. Many fans here, say Bill Belichick is a lousy general manager. Don’t compare a powerhouse to a team that hasn’t tasted victory in years. That is flawed thinking. Every GM that has ever been a GM in any sport on every continent on the planet would love to be lousy enough to have place 6 trophies in their teams case. If you have to quote idiots to make your point. What more can I say. Fans here say BB is a lousy GM, no amount of Lombardi Trophy's can change that opinion.
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