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Post by jaymas on Nov 30, 2021 16:36:33 GMT -5
Barkley averages more yards after contact than Booker, even when he's having a bad year, but he goes down easier than Booker.
Interesting logic.
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Post by Delicreep on Nov 30, 2021 16:47:07 GMT -5
So I may have imagined it, but Keyshawn was saying this morning that it's a no brainer to resign Barkley...about $13 mil was his guess. Keyshawn needs his head to be examined. The no brainer is the no brain in his head. His position was...if I heard him correctly... that D's play us differently with Barkley in and the passing game benefits significantly because of this. That he is capable of making big plays and you don't let that walk. And I am not saying he doesn't have a concussion, just that he said it - Jwill seemed to agree. Max was not having it.
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Post by snyder55 on Nov 30, 2021 16:49:40 GMT -5
So I may have imagined it, but Keyshawn was saying this morning that it's a no brainer to resign Barkley...about $13 mil was his guess. Keyshawn needs his head to be examined. The no brainer is the no brain in his head. Keyshawn=too many games with out a helmet...
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te88
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Post by te88 on Nov 30, 2021 17:16:58 GMT -5
Booker is averaging 3.7 yards per carry...Barkley 3.6 but with the potential for very big plays. This is quite frankly, the most overstated thing I've ever seen on here. Pure emotion and selective memory. All of it points to piss poor run blocking. I'm more concerned that we were a better run blocking unit iin 2018 annd 2019 than I am about Barkley or Booker etc. And on the receiving front, Booker can't do things like Barkley did against the Saints. They can’t get better run blocking if they pay Barkley. Barkley is the solution to nothing and there are holes in his game. He has unique abilities but you can get the production you need for a fraction of the cost while also gaining a more reliable player in terms of health, pass protection and consistent play. He’s like playing a slot machine. You lose more often that you win.
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Post by jaymas on Nov 30, 2021 17:27:07 GMT -5
Booker is averaging 3.7 yards per carry...Barkley 3.6 but with the potential for very big plays. This is quite frankly, the most overstated thing I've ever seen on here. Pure emotion and selective memory. All of it points to piss poor run blocking. I'm more concerned that we were a better run blocking unit iin 2018 annd 2019 than I am about Barkley or Booker etc. And on the receiving front, Booker can't do things like Barkley did against the Saints. They can’t get better run blocking if they pay Barkley. Barkley is the solution to nothing and there are holes in his game. He has unique abilities but you can get the production you need for a fraction of the cost while also gaining a more reliable player in terms of health, pass protection and consistent play. He’s like playing a slot machine. You lose more often that you win. I'm not saying we should pay him, but RBs don't command the kind of money that would prevent us from getting blocking help. Hell, even an average oline would have this all looking a lot different. My biggest concern with him is health.
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Post by Morehead State on Nov 30, 2021 17:31:23 GMT -5
They can’t get better run blocking if they pay Barkley. Barkley is the solution to nothing and there are holes in his game. He has unique abilities but you can get the production you need for a fraction of the cost while also gaining a more reliable player in terms of health, pass protection and consistent play. He’s like playing a slot machine. You lose more often that you win. I'm not saying we should pay him, but RBs don't command the kind of money that would prevent us from getting blocking help. Hell, even an average oline would have this all looking a lot different. My biggest concern with him is health. You're not concerned about his quality of play? He's made exactly two plays all season.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Nov 30, 2021 17:50:59 GMT -5
The oline is a major issue for our running game but where is Barkleys very fast first 5 steps on things like swing passes when he has some room? In his first year he had a burst that we have not seen enough of yet this season. I'm not down on him. I was very excited to have him back this season. I just think he is a work in progress and it is not all about our horrible oline for Barkley. I do think he should get better next season. Hopefully this season as well.
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Post by Martin on Nov 30, 2021 17:52:52 GMT -5
Keyshawn needs his head to be examined. The no brainer is the no brain in his head. His position was...if I heard him correctly... that D's play us differently with Barkley in and the passing game benefits significantly because of this. That he is capable of making big plays and you don't let that walk. And I am not saying he doesn't have a concussion, just that he said it - Jwill seemed to agree. Max was not having it. If the Giants had an acceptable oline one that was capable I could see trying to keep him and yet Barkley for that kind of money is gonna get stopped at the LOS unless stellar blocking is in place. You saw the Eagles game? It seemed like focus and money needs to be spent on the oline not on a RB that dances better than Gene Kelley.
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Post by McCherry on Nov 30, 2021 18:12:44 GMT -5
Barkley is the better athlete and has a higher upside. Booker is just more in tune with the offense. But, he also had the entire offseason and isn't coming off a knee injury. Booker is a nice back up RB. Nice to have him on the team. Saquan is supposed to be a far superior player.
He's not. He may be a better player, but if he is, it's not by much. And LT is right, Saquan goes down way too easily these days. One guy can almost always get him to the ground without much of a fuss.
Before he tore his knee, yes. How many players in the history of the NFL didn't struggle the season after knee surgery? It's career-ending for most. He is playing exactly like any player who tore his knee and missed an entire year of football. It took Barber 2-3 years to return from his knee injury. Barkley may never recover.
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Post by Kase1 on Nov 30, 2021 18:34:46 GMT -5
I'm a fan of SQB, but his issue is 100% mental. He needs to see the hole and attack it, make people miss AFTER the LOS. A problem is that he is seeing defenders on our side of the LOS, signaling a issue with our OL. Hopefully him breaking off that big run was a confidence builder and he realizes he might be able to channel the Saquon of days past
Is the problem blocking, yes.
Is the problem SQB, yes.
We fix the OL, we fix SQB, sadly it will take more time than he will be in blue. Barkley would have been a GREAT pick if we had a OL in place, sadly we haven't had 1 the whole time he was here.
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Post by Delicreep on Nov 30, 2021 19:32:37 GMT -5
His position was...if I heard him correctly... that D's play us differently with Barkley in and the passing game benefits significantly because of this. That he is capable of making big plays and you don't let that walk. And I am not saying he doesn't have a concussion, just that he said it - Jwill seemed to agree. Max was not having it. If the Giants had an acceptable oline one that was capable I could see trying to keep him and yet Barkley for that kind of money is gonna get stopped at the LOS unless stellar blocking is in place. You saw the Eagles game? It seemed like focus and money needs to be spent on the oline not on a RB that dances better than Gene Kelley. I feel like Keyshawn essentially ignored everything in your very handsome post.
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Post by Morehead State on Nov 30, 2021 20:17:48 GMT -5
Booker is a nice back up RB. Nice to have him on the team. Saquan is supposed to be a far superior player.
He's not. He may be a better player, but if he is, it's not by much. And LT is right, Saquan goes down way too easily these days. One guy can almost always get him to the ground without much of a fuss.
Before he tore his knee, yes. How many players in the history of the NFL didn't struggle the season after knee surgery? It's career-ending for most. He is playing exactly like any player who tore his knee and missed an entire year of football. It took Barber 2-3 years to return from his knee injury. Barkley may never recover. I'm still angry about the whole" picking a RB with the 2nd pick" thing I guess. They ALWAYS get hurt. They usually last 5 years or less as their best selves. It still bugs me. Saquan looks like he won't make it near that far. It could be that we got two years of the real "Saquan" and now we have just a guy.
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Post by Morehead State on Nov 30, 2021 20:18:25 GMT -5
If the Giants had an acceptable oline one that was capable I could see trying to keep him and yet Barkley for that kind of money is gonna get stopped at the LOS unless stellar blocking is in place. You saw the Eagles game? It seemed like focus and money needs to be spent on the oline not on a RB that dances better than Gene Kelley. I feel like Keyshawn essentially ignored everything in your very handsome post. "Handsome post".
You are a hoot.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2021 20:49:11 GMT -5
I want to see WINS!! Not sure if you watch the Giants games or any other ones since Barkley seems to be one of the easiest RBs in the league to tackle. Not what I want to see but if that's how you want to deal with this discussion that's on you.. I saw a terrible offensive line. I saw a play where he had a decent hole and got like 30 yards. I've seen countless times where he has gotten the ball and there are defenders on him behind the LOS. I've seen plays where they try to sweep him out left or right, and the block is so bad there is nowhere for him to go. I've seen him, last game, pushing the pile and getting 6, 7 yard gains. I'm not sure what you want him to do. In the last 4 games, he has had 13, 2, 6, and 13 rushes. You expect him to be in a rhythm immediately. They're not giving him the ball. Can we see one game where he gets 20+ carries? I'm not sure if it's clear, but when Barkley is on the field, the other team game plans vs him. They are not game planning vs Booker. I agree they wouldn't for Booker he's a back up at best and at this point I doubt they do for Barkley.. What I want Barkley to do is win the team games.. He's a 2nd over all pick and if this is what they get after 4 years then I really hope they let him leave without a new contract. The pick has been costly for this team with no end in sight..
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2021 20:52:37 GMT -5
How do you know this?? Can't say I've even heard of Booker until the Giants over paid him in FA this season. You watch the Raiders games also?? Booker's skillset isn't the same. He's a solid receiving back on check downs, screens, flat routes, certainly sitting in the middle of the field on some things. You're not going to line him up at split end and give him an option route with a go...that's WR stuff. Barkley can do that. Quite frankly we haven't used him enough as a receiver like that both out wide occasionally and from the slot, or letting him run closer to a receiver tree out of the backfield. so Booker is a solid receiver just not as good as the way Barkley should be used but hasn't been yet..
I got nothing for that! Well done..
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jerky
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Post by jerky on Nov 30, 2021 21:10:41 GMT -5
I saw a terrible offensive line. I saw a play where he had a decent hole and got like 30 yards. I've seen countless times where he has gotten the ball and there are defenders on him behind the LOS. I've seen plays where they try to sweep him out left or right, and the block is so bad there is nowhere for him to go. I've seen him, last game, pushing the pile and getting 6, 7 yard gains. I'm not sure what you want him to do. In the last 4 games, he has had 13, 2, 6, and 13 rushes. You expect him to be in a rhythm immediately. They're not giving him the ball. Can we see one game where he gets 20+ carries? I'm not sure if it's clear, but when Barkley is on the field, the other team game plans vs him. They are not game planning vs Booker. I agree they wouldn't for Booker he's a back up at best and at this point I doubt they do for Barkley.. What I want Barkley to do is win the team games.. He's a 2nd over all pick and if this is what they get after 4 years then I really hope they let him leave without a new contract. The pick has been costly for this team with no end in sight..
He can't win you the game if he doesn't touch the ball. It's a tough ask to want him to win a game with 13 touches. This is all assuming that a single player can win any game, which they cannot, not even a QB.
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Post by giantfromtheoz on Nov 30, 2021 21:46:10 GMT -5
Big and powerful yet so small and timid. For a 230lb dude as powerful as he is, he gets rag dolled around a fair bit. It’s a shame because he’s a perfect build, with speed like that he should be pushing through gaps and getting a 3 even on a bad block. The amount of negative yards kills our drives. He can fix it I think but he’s stuck in bad habits now
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2021 6:58:45 GMT -5
I agree they wouldn't for Booker he's a back up at best and at this point I doubt they do for Barkley.. What I want Barkley to do is win the team games.. He's a 2nd over all pick and if this is what they get after 4 years then I really hope they let him leave without a new contract. The pick has been costly for this team with no end in sight..
He can't win you the game if he doesn't touch the ball. It's a tough ask to want him to win a game with 13 touches. This is all assuming that a single player can win any game, which they cannot, not even a QB. Be more productive get more touches.. That will be a reason why they will win games.. What we have witnessing these past 3+ years hasn't been close to good enough.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2021 7:01:42 GMT -5
Big and powerful yet so small and timid. For a 230lb dude as powerful as he is, he gets rag dolled around a fair bit. It’s a shame because he’s a perfect build, with speed like that he should be pushing through gaps and getting a 3 even on a bad block. The amount of negative yards kills our drives. He can fix it I think but he’s stuck in bad habits now Can't fix what you never were.. It is crazy to witness a player with his build comes up so small during contact while you see these other RBs spotting him close to 30lbs run though players and sometimes throw them around..
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Post by jaymas on Dec 1, 2021 8:36:46 GMT -5
I'm not saying we should pay him, but RBs don't command the kind of money that would prevent us from getting blocking help. Hell, even an average oline would have this all looking a lot different. My biggest concern with him is health. You're not concerned about his quality of play? He's made exactly two plays all season. Generally speaking...no. My assessment of his play would be: - super rough to start off the injury - finding a groove only to get hurt again - Run blocking doing him and Booker zero favors. Overall, what offense as terrible as the Giants has one player playing good to great with the offense being super bad overall? That's not a thing on bad offenses. We've at most, had flashes of guys playing well across the board. I wouldn't expect anyone to be performing well on an offense that's at or near the bottom of the league in every traditional and advanced metric used to assess an offense. If we had anyone playing great, the offense wouldn't be this bad.
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Post by Morehead State on Dec 1, 2021 9:46:08 GMT -5
You're not concerned about his quality of play? He's made exactly two plays all season. Generally speaking...no. My assessment of his play would be: - super rough to start off the injury - finding a groove only to get hurt again - Run blocking doing him and Booker zero favors. Overall, what offense as terrible as the Giants has one player playing good to great with the offense being super bad overall? That's not a thing on bad offenses. We've at most, had flashes of guys playing well across the board. I wouldn't expect anyone to be performing well on an offense that's at or near the bottom of the league in every traditional and advanced metric used to assess an offense. If we had anyone playing great, the offense wouldn't be this bad. Any team's running game is determined by it's ability to block up front. RB's themselves, tend to be less relevant. In SF, it really doesn't matter much who is in that backfield.
The point is that talented RB's can be had later in the draft and unless you are Derrick Henry, you DON'T pay them with a huge contract. Why pick a RB with the 2nd pick in the draft, if he needs the same things ALL RB's need to succeed?
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Post by snyder55 on Dec 1, 2021 9:51:26 GMT -5
So I may have imagined it, but Keyshawn was saying this morning that it's a no brainer to resign Barkley...about $13 mil was his guess. Keyshawn needs his head to be examined. The no brainer is the no brain in his head. why would anybody quote Keyshawn as a source of information...
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Post by jaymas on Dec 1, 2021 9:59:05 GMT -5
Generally speaking...no. My assessment of his play would be: - super rough to start off the injury - finding a groove only to get hurt again - Run blocking doing him and Booker zero favors. Overall, what offense as terrible as the Giants has one player playing good to great with the offense being super bad overall? That's not a thing on bad offenses. We've at most, had flashes of guys playing well across the board. I wouldn't expect anyone to be performing well on an offense that's at or near the bottom of the league in every traditional and advanced metric used to assess an offense. If we had anyone playing great, the offense wouldn't be this bad. Any team's running game is determined by it's ability to block up front. RB's themselves, tend to be less relevant. In SF, it really doesn't matter much who is in that backfield.
The point is that talented RB's can be had later in the draft and unless you are Derrock Henry, you DON'T pay them with a huge contract. Why pick a RB with the 2nd pick in the draft, if he needs the same things ALL RB's need to succeed?
But that's not the point of this discussion...it started with this whole Booker vs. Barkley performance/talent malarkey. That's all I'm commenting on. Your point is a whole other one. Derek Henry is hurt right now. I'd still give him a second contract though. I'd give Kamara one too (also hurt). McCaffrey and Barkley are proving to be too injured to get a second one. Or at least one that's premium for the position. I would not give Barkley a second contract that makes him a top paid RB. But there is one more year to let that whole thing play out.
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jerky
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Post by jerky on Dec 1, 2021 10:19:20 GMT -5
He can't win you the game if he doesn't touch the ball. It's a tough ask to want him to win a game with 13 touches. This is all assuming that a single player can win any game, which they cannot, not even a QB. Be more productive get more touches.. That will be a reason why they will win games.. What we have witnessing these past 3+ years hasn't been close to good enough. That's not really how it works. You are supposed to feed someone the ball and get them into a rhythm. You don't just stop giving him the ball if he had some bad runs. That's a great way to destroy someone's confidence.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2021 10:22:24 GMT -5
Be more productive get more touches.. That will be a reason why they will win games.. What we have witnessing these past 3+ years hasn't been close to good enough. That's not really how it works. You are supposed to feed someone the ball and get them into a rhythm. You don't just stop giving him the ball if he had some bad runs. That's a great way to destroy someone's confidence. The way it works is the offense makes 1st downs so they can keep the ball and provide more chances for their play makers.. That can't happen when you run for less than 2 yards multiple times in a row and are in 3rd and long early and often.. This is fun! Thanks for the responses.. GO GIANTS!!
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jerky
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Post by jerky on Dec 1, 2021 10:25:10 GMT -5
That's not really how it works. You are supposed to feed someone the ball and get them into a rhythm. You don't just stop giving him the ball if he had some bad runs. That's a great way to destroy someone's confidence. The way it works is the offense makes 1st downs so they can keep the ball and provide more chances for their play makers.. That can't happen when you run for less than 2 yards multiple times in a row and are in 3rd and long early and often.. This is fun! Thanks for the responses.. GO GIANTS!! Sure, if you say so. Even Mark Schlereth during the game said that Barkley needs 20-25 touches. I guess he doesn't know football either.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2021 10:45:23 GMT -5
The way it works is the offense makes 1st downs so they can keep the ball and provide more chances for their play makers.. That can't happen when you run for less than 2 yards multiple times in a row and are in 3rd and long early and often.. This is fun! Thanks for the responses.. GO GIANTS!! Sure, if you say so. Even Mark Schlereth during the game said that Barkley needs 20-25 touches. I guess he doesn't know football either. Awesome response!! Thanks..
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jerky
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Post by jerky on Dec 1, 2021 10:52:47 GMT -5
Sure, if you say so. Even Mark Schlereth during the game said that Barkley needs 20-25 touches. I guess he doesn't know football either. Awesome response!! Thanks.. Thanks for the great conversation. I'm glad we could talk past each other, a key to any great debate.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2021 11:04:34 GMT -5
Awesome response!! Thanks.. Thanks for the great conversation. I'm glad we could talk past each other, a key to any great debate. I'm glad we can have a conversation while living up to our usernames out here.. Well done on your part I must say..
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Dec 1, 2021 11:20:01 GMT -5
I tend to agree that while all these RB's are not as dynamic a runner as Barkley, they did seem to be more consistently productive no matter which Oline we had.
i don’t understand why he doesn’t hit the hole fast. Year one he was full speed and cutting hard regardless. Now, he tippie toes in anticipation of seeing a hole to drop the throttle . . . yet so often he never finds the hole and gets tackled. He’s literally like a home run hitter who strikes out often. Just run north/south and use your moves at the 2nd level. For the most part yes, but too many times there is no hole to hit fast. How many times is the defense filling gaps and there are more defenders than blockers. Nobody fears our passing game so the defense first read is the run thus loading the box. SB sometimes needs to cut before he even reaches the OL. I too would just plow ahead and get what I could get. I think thats pretty much what he is doing. I don't know if were trying more trap blocks to spring him or trying to bull foward and get to the 2nd level. I just don't know what to do. But what were doing it's not working. If were not doing what we did for Gallman last year please lets try that.
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