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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 15, 2021 17:58:35 GMT -5
So far I have seen 2 draft guys Ric Sarratela of the Draft bible being the second , say the Giants should take a tackle at 11 if if Smith and Chase are gone. his reasoning is do you want to draft slot at 11 Waddle and some of the others he thinks are gonna be late first rounders. He thinks Pitts will be gone he also thinks they can get a #1 at 43 of the second round mention the kid from USC said he is as good as Jefferson or can do the same things. He is not saying DG would do this he is saying he should do it if the the guys mentioned are off the board same thing Dan Schnier said from Big Blue Banter. I will take Parsons if he is there.
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gumby
Special Teams
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Post by gumby on Jan 18, 2021 15:03:02 GMT -5
Another OLman please.
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Post by jaymas on Jan 18, 2021 15:04:52 GMT -5
Just reading his scouting report this stood out to me. “He is fast for a tight end.” “One of the most dangerous mismatch weapons for any NFL offense is a receiving tight end. A tight end with size, speed and athleticism is a nightmare for defenses to cover downfield, and Pitts is that kind of mismatch weapon for the next level.” “Even if Pitts does not improve as a blocker during his junior year, that won't sink his draft stock, as he will be selected off of his receiving mismatch ability. For the NFL.” Now, tell me this doesn’t sound like Evan Engram? Are we really going the same route again? Another fast talented tight end who can’t block worth a damn. If this is our pick Gettleman should be fired on the spot.. Only thing is, you only have to watch Pitts catch the ball once to see his hands are completely different (by different I mean 10x better) than Engram's. |
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Post by Kruunch on Jan 18, 2021 15:09:11 GMT -5
Just reading his scouting report this stood out to me. “He is fast for a tight end.” “One of the most dangerous mismatch weapons for any NFL offense is a receiving tight end. A tight end with size, speed and athleticism is a nightmare for defenses to cover downfield, and Pitts is that kind of mismatch weapon for the next level.” “Even if Pitts does not improve as a blocker during his junior year, that won't sink his draft stock, as he will be selected off of his receiving mismatch ability. For the NFL.” Now, tell me this doesn’t sound like Evan Engram? Are we really going the same route again? Another fast talented tight end who can’t block worth a damn. If this is our pick Gettleman should be fired on the spot.. Only thing is, you only have to watch Pitts catch the ball once to see his hands are completely different (by different I mean 10x better) than Engram's. I think it’s safe to say Engram couldn’t catch a cold in Antarctica. |
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 19, 2021 11:01:15 GMT -5
Just reading his scouting report this stood out to me. “He is fast for a tight end.” “One of the most dangerous mismatch weapons for any NFL offense is a receiving tight end. A tight end with size, speed and athleticism is a nightmare for defenses to cover downfield, and Pitts is that kind of mismatch weapon for the next level.” “Even if Pitts does not improve as a blocker during his junior year, that won't sink his draft stock, as he will be selected off of his receiving mismatch ability. For the NFL.” Now, tell me this doesn’t sound like Evan Engram? Are we really going the same route again? Another fast talented tight end who can’t block worth a damn. If this is our pick Gettleman should be fired on the spot.. Only thing is, you only have to watch Pitts catch the ball once to see his hands are completely different (by different I mean 10x better) than Engram's. Also Engram is 6'3" and Pitts is 6'6". Engram was a "mismatch" because of his speed. Pitts is huge and has the athleticism. To be completely fair to Engram though he would be a mismatch nightmare if he could catch the damn ball all the time. |
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Post by McCherry on Jan 19, 2021 11:24:52 GMT -5
Only thing is, you only have to watch Pitts catch the ball once to see his hands are completely different (by different I mean 10x better) than Engram's. Also Engram is 6'3" and Pitts is 6'6". Engram was a "mismatch" because of his speed. Pitts is huge and has the athleticism. To be completely fair to Engram though he would be a mismatch nightmare if he could catch the damn ball all the time. Right, they're not comparable at all. Pitts was split out wide alot, he wasn't asked to block. No team is going to pass on him because of the offense he played in. |
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 19, 2021 11:49:39 GMT -5
Also Engram is 6'3" and Pitts is 6'6". Engram was a "mismatch" because of his speed. Pitts is huge and has the athleticism. To be completely fair to Engram though he would be a mismatch nightmare if he could catch the damn ball all the time. Right, they're not comparable at all. Pitts was split out wide alot, he wasn't asked to block. No team is going to pass on him because of the offense he played in. I actually think plenty of teams will pass on him. People see the top TEs in the league putting up great receiving numbers and think that's all you need but the truth is almost every top TE is also a very capable blocker. That is what truly makes a TE great. If all you can do is catch then you are just a big WR and the D will treat you as such and just run a nickel or big nickel to counter. If a TE can block and catch then the D has a harder time countering him.
Freiermuth is my favorite TE in the draft because of this. I'm not against taking Pitts, I just hope he can block.
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Post by McCherry on Jan 19, 2021 12:02:31 GMT -5
Right, they're not comparable at all. Pitts was split out wide alot, he wasn't asked to block. No team is going to pass on him because of the offense he played in. I actually think plenty of teams will pass on him. People see the top TEs in the league putting up great receiving numbers and think that's all you need but the truth is almost every top TE is also a very capable blocker. That is what truly makes a TE great. If all you can do is catch then you are just a big WR and the D will treat you as such and just run a nickel or big nickel to counter. If a TE can block and catch then the D has a harder time countering him.
Freiermuth is my favorite TE in the draft because of this. I'm not against taking Pitts, I just hope he can block.
They'll pass because of other needs, not because of blocking, which he can do. He put on 8 lbs this season. His workout numbers are insane. He’s alot more like Shockey than Engram, with is the way he stiff arm and throws DB's to the ground. He has insane strength and speed that's going to make him a top of the round pick. |
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 19, 2021 12:09:59 GMT -5
They'll pass because of other needs, not because of blocking, which he can do. He put on 8 lbs this season. His workout numbers are insane. He’s alot more like Shockey than Engram, with is the way he stiff arm and throws DB's to the ground. He has insane strength and speed that's going to make him a top of the round pick. I'm not saying Pitts specifically because I honestly have not watched enough of him to say whether I think he can block or not; but teams will absolutely pass on a TE that can't block. That was my only point. Freiermuth blocks like a lineman which is why I like him. If Pitts can block then I am all good if he's our pick. |
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Post by GameTime on Jan 19, 2021 12:11:49 GMT -5
Right, they're not comparable at all. Pitts was split out wide alot, he wasn't asked to block. No team is going to pass on him because of the offense he played in. I actually think plenty of teams will pass on him. People see the top TEs in the league putting up great receiving numbers and think that's all you need but the truth is almost every top TE is also a very capable blocker. That is what truly makes a TE great. If all you can do is catch then you are just a big WR and the D will treat you as such and just run a nickel or big nickel to counter. If a TE can block and catch then the D has a harder time countering him.
Freiermuth is my favorite TE in the draft because of this. I'm not against taking Pitts, I just hope he can block.
maybe get him in second round? Maybe? |
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Post by GameTime on Jan 19, 2021 12:13:36 GMT -5
They'll pass because of other needs, not because of blocking, which he can do. He put on 8 lbs this season. His workout numbers are insane. He’s alot more like Shockey than Engram, with is the way he stiff arm and throws DB's to the ground. He has insane strength and speed that's going to make him a top of the round pick. I'm not saying Pitts specifically because I honestly have not watched enough of him to say whether I think he can block or not; but teams will absolutely pass on a TE that can't block. That was my only point. Freiermuth blocks like a lineman which is why I like him. If Pitts can block then I am all good if he's our pick. from what I have read there have been pros and cons to his blocking. But a dude that big will have to block in the NFL. |
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Post by jimmieray on Jan 19, 2021 12:20:40 GMT -5
They'll pass because of other needs, not because of blocking, which he can do. He put on 8 lbs this season. His workout numbers are insane. He’s alot more like Shockey than Engram, with is the way he stiff arm and throws DB's to the ground. He has insane strength and speed that's going to make him a top of the round pick. I'm not saying Pitts specifically because I honestly have not watched enough of him to say whether I think he can block or not; but teams will absolutely pass on a TE that can't block. That was my only point. Freiermuth blocks like a lineman which is why I like him. If Pitts can block then I am all good if he's our pick. There's a big investment in your QB, and good ones are getting a wee bit scarce these days - team's will absolutely pass. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2021 12:35:29 GMT -5
I'm not saying Pitts specifically because I honestly have not watched enough of him to say whether I think he can block or not; but teams will absolutely pass on a TE that can't block. That was my only point. Freiermuth blocks like a lineman which is why I like him. If Pitts can block then I am all good if he's our pick. from what I have read there have been pros and cons to his blocking. But a dude that big will have to block in the NFL. That's what I keep thinking about Barkley.. If they select Pitts at 11 that will make 3 out of 4 years I didn't like their 1st pick.. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2021 12:36:07 GMT -5
Right, they're not comparable at all. Pitts was split out wide alot, he wasn't asked to block. No team is going to pass on him because of the offense he played in. I actually think plenty of teams will pass on him. People see the top TEs in the league putting up great receiving numbers and think that's all you need but the truth is almost every top TE is also a very capable blocker. That is what truly makes a TE great. If all you can do is catch then you are just a big WR and the D will treat you as such and just run a nickel or big nickel to counter. If a TE can block and catch then the D has a harder time countering him.
Freiermuth is my favorite TE in the draft because of this. I'm not against taking Pitts, I just hope he can block.
He’s an above average blocker from what I’ve seen. More effort than skill though. |
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 19, 2021 12:53:21 GMT -5
He’s an above average blocker from what I’ve seen. More effort than skill though. Sometimes it's that effort thing that gets people. I'd prefer high effort, bad skill instead of the other way. You can teach skill, not effort. Not that everyone learns. That is good news though. |
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 19, 2021 12:54:46 GMT -5
I actually think plenty of teams will pass on him. People see the top TEs in the league putting up great receiving numbers and think that's all you need but the truth is almost every top TE is also a very capable blocker. That is what truly makes a TE great. If all you can do is catch then you are just a big WR and the D will treat you as such and just run a nickel or big nickel to counter. If a TE can block and catch then the D has a harder time countering him.
Freiermuth is my favorite TE in the draft because of this. I'm not against taking Pitts, I just hope he can block.
maybe get him in second round? Maybe? That is my biggest wish. I don't even know if we are looking for a TE but this kid would be a huge steal in round 2 IMO. WR round 1, Freiermuth round 2; add Barkley back in and this is a totally different offense. We might even score 20 points. |
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Post by McCherry on Jan 19, 2021 13:14:53 GMT -5
He’s an above average blocker from what I’ve seen. More effort than skill though. Sometimes it's that effort thing that gets people. I'd prefer high effort, bad skill instead of the other way. You can teach skill, not effort. Not that everyone learns. That is good news though. He's such an insane offensive talent though it's not going to hold him back regardless. You use him correctly he's going to massively impact the offense. As you pointed out, was Engrams blocking as much of a problem as his drops? |
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 19, 2021 20:40:44 GMT -5
Sometimes it's that effort thing that gets people. I'd prefer high effort, bad skill instead of the other way. You can teach skill, not effort. Not that everyone learns. That is good news though. He's such an insane offensive talent though it's not going to hold him back regardless. You use him correctly he's going to massively impact the offense. As you pointed out, was Engrams blocking as much of a problem as his drops? I would never take a TE in round 1 that can't block, no matter how amazing of an offensive threat he is. Gronk for instance wasn't considered a big offensive weapons and was unathletic. He was a red zone threat and decent route runner. One draft profile actually says "Gronkowski will never be an elite tight end in the NFL". That same profile gave him a comp of Kevin Boss. He ended up being one of the best and BB compared his blocking to our famous TE Bavarro.
The ability for a TE to be a blocking weapon is what creates the greatest mismatches. Its the same reason a player like McCaffery can get so many more receiving yards than a back that specializes in receiving. If we know you are just a receiving back we can game plan around that. If you are duel threat it's a challenge.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2021 20:52:15 GMT -5
He's such an insane offensive talent though it's not going to hold him back regardless. You use him correctly he's going to massively impact the offense. As you pointed out, was Engrams blocking as much of a problem as his drops? I would never take a TE in round 1 that can't block, no matter how amazing of an offensive threat he is. Gronk for instance wasn't considered a big offensive weapons and was unathletic. He was a red zone threat and decent route runner. One draft profile actually says "Gronkowski will never be an elite tight end in the NFL". That same profile gave him a comp of Kevin Boss. He ended up being one of the best and BB compared his blocking to our famous TE Bavarro.
The ability for a TE to be a blocking weapon is what creates the greatest mismatches. Its the same reason a player like McCaffery can get so many more receiving yards than a back that specializes in receiving. If we know you are just a receiving back we can game plan around that. If you are duel threat it's a challenge.
I have to agree with you irish. Blocking seperates the elites from the All-pros. Its very difficult to find a TE coming out of college who can do both. Now the question is, how much do you trust your coaching staff? |
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Post by McCherry on Jan 19, 2021 21:45:32 GMT -5
He's such an insane offensive talent though it's not going to hold him back regardless. You use him correctly he's going to massively impact the offense. As you pointed out, was Engrams blocking as much of a problem as his drops? I would never take a TE in round 1 that can't block, no matter how amazing of an offensive threat he is. Gronk for instance wasn't considered a big offensive weapons and was unathletic. He was a red zone threat and decent route runner. One draft profile actually says "Gronkowski will never be an elite tight end in the NFL". That same profile gave him a comp of Kevin Boss. He ended up being one of the best and BB compared his blocking to our famous TE Bavarro.
The ability for a TE to be a blocking weapon is what creates the greatest mismatches. Its the same reason a player like McCaffery can get so many more receiving yards than a back that specializes in receiving. If we know you are just a receiving back we can game plan around that. If you are duel threat it's a challenge.
You're not going to draft him that high to have him block. But nobody is saying he can't and he is already out lifting most of the guys he'll be blocking, this is why he's a top-10 projection. But the point is, the Giants had Evan Engram on the field for more snaps than every other offensive skill player this year because they knew how to use him. His blocking wasn't a liability, everything else about him was. We could do the same with Pitts. Move him around, split him out. Trying to make him a traditional TE would be a mistake. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2021 23:35:46 GMT -5
I would never take a TE in round 1 that can't block, no matter how amazing of an offensive threat he is. Gronk for instance wasn't considered a big offensive weapons and was unathletic. He was a red zone threat and decent route runner. One draft profile actually says "Gronkowski will never be an elite tight end in the NFL". That same profile gave him a comp of Kevin Boss. He ended up being one of the best and BB compared his blocking to our famous TE Bavarro.
The ability for a TE to be a blocking weapon is what creates the greatest mismatches. Its the same reason a player like McCaffery can get so many more receiving yards than a back that specializes in receiving. If we know you are just a receiving back we can game plan around that. If you are duel threat it's a challenge.
You're not going to draft him that high to have him block. But nobody is saying he can't and he is already out lifting most of the guys he'll be blocking, this is why he's a top-10 projection. But the point is, the Giants had Evan Engram on the field for more snaps than every other offensive skill player this year because they knew how to use him. His blocking wasn't a liability, everything else about him was. We could do the same with Pitts. Move him around, split him out. Trying to make him a traditional TE would be a mistake. This is why when people get upset at Engram I'm like, "but you didnt see him lined up in the slot which forced a safety out of the middle of the field on that 12 yard Gallman run". I just hope DG & Judge get it right with whoever they pick in the 1st. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2021 8:39:08 GMT -5
You're not going to draft him that high to have him block. But nobody is saying he can't and he is already out lifting most of the guys he'll be blocking, this is why he's a top-10 projection. But the point is, the Giants had Evan Engram on the field for more snaps than every other offensive skill player this year because they knew how to use him. His blocking wasn't a liability, everything else about him was. We could do the same with Pitts. Move him around, split him out. Trying to make him a traditional TE would be a mistake. This is why when people get upset at Engram I'm like, "but you didnt see him lined up in the slot which forced a safety out of the middle of the field on that 12 yard Gallman run". I just hope DG & Judge get it right with whoever they pick in the 1st. We all know that the running game is better without Engram attempting to block and now you don't get it when fans would like to have a TE that can play the position properly and actually help in the running game.. Interesting.. |
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Post by McCherry on Jan 20, 2021 10:19:44 GMT -5
You're not going to draft him that high to have him block. But nobody is saying he can't and he is already out lifting most of the guys he'll be blocking, this is why he's a top-10 projection. But the point is, the Giants had Evan Engram on the field for more snaps than every other offensive skill player this year because they knew how to use him. His blocking wasn't a liability, everything else about him was. We could do the same with Pitts. Move him around, split him out. Trying to make him a traditional TE would be a mistake. This is why when people get upset at Engram I'm like, "but you didnt see him lined up in the slot which forced a safety out of the middle of the field on that 12 yard Gallman run". I just hope DG & Judge get it right with whoever they pick in the 1st.It will be hard not to. Just take the BPA, anyone but a RB or Safety. |
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 20, 2021 16:43:28 GMT -5
You're not going to draft him that high to have him block. But nobody is saying he can't and he is already out lifting most of the guys he'll be blocking, this is why he's a top-10 projection. But the point is, the Giants had Evan Engram on the field for more snaps than every other offensive skill player this year because they knew how to use him. His blocking wasn't a liability, everything else about him was. We could do the same with Pitts. Move him around, split him out. Trying to make him a traditional TE would be a mistake. If I draft a TE at 11 you are damn right he is going to block. Do any top TEs in the NFL not block?
I want to point out that I'm not talking about Pitts, I'm just saying in general when talking about TEs. If they can't block then they are not a mismatch.
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 20, 2021 16:47:58 GMT -5
I have to agree with you irish. Blocking seperates the elites from the All-pros. Its very difficult to find a TE coming out of college who can do both. Now the question is, how much do you trust your coaching staff? I have faith in this coaching staff. I have not seen a finished product to decide if they can coach or not. Honestly though if they can't coach then it won't really matter who we draft, this team will fail. |
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Post by snyder55 on Jan 20, 2021 17:10:48 GMT -5
Maybe I just don't understand the draft. But as a first round pick, if I were to ever select a TE, he would already have all of the skill sets required of a TE. That means he is already a great blocker. I would never draft, in the first round, a TE that is great at catching passes, but needs work blocking. I want a TE with these skills already developed as a first round pick. So many of these GMs get lured in by the athletic talent, but as a first round pick, you need to have all of these fundamental skills developed. I think I saw in this thread that Pitts still needs work as a blocker. That just doesn't do it for me. Shockey was a good first round pick as a TE (except for his mental state), and even he didn't stick around as a Giant. I don't know, that's just my opinion. I agree. With any first round pick you want as few holes in their game as possible. it seems like its getting harder and harder to find a TE in the draft who can both block and catch equally well, I find it hard to believe that colleges don't teach their TEs to block |
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Post by snyder55 on Jan 20, 2021 17:19:33 GMT -5
Pitts has apparent weaknesses. For one, he struggles with blocking as a whole. His hands are wide, his pad level swells, and overall the functional strength needed to be a strong blocker is not there. Now, is there a willingness to compete as a blocker? Absolutely, but the biggest thing I can give him is that he frames blocks well. So, Pitts can undoubtedly grow as a blocker, but that is simply not his thing yet.This wouldn’t scare me off at all. Sounds like the pre draft write up on Engram engram drops too many easy catches and it wouldn't make me sad if we moved on from him , we could have gotten a TE with Engrams talent in the later rounds .. |
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 20, 2021 18:05:26 GMT -5
I agree. With any first round pick you want as few holes in their game as possible. it seems like its getting harder and harder to find a TE in the draft who can both block and catch equally well, I find it hard to believe that colleges don't teach their TEs to block It certainly is tough for us. But also I think that is something teams need to target on purpose. You hear so much about this being a passing league and that seems to make people think you just need a TE that can go and catch the ball, but being able to disguise what he is doing makes him so much better.
This is what I want in a TE prospect "PlayerX can lead block in the running game and has the power and bend to anchor against pass-rushers. As a receiver, PlayerX has terrific length, and very good straight-line speed, with reliable hands. He doesn't run a wide variety of routes and doesn't display sudden or sharp breaks in his routes."
He can block and has reliable hands. Not some super freak athlete that can be in the Olympics but a football player that can do the things a TE needs. That is a scouting report on Travis Kelce.
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Post by snyder55 on Jan 21, 2021 10:22:51 GMT -5
it seems like its getting harder and harder to find a TE in the draft who can both block and catch equally well, I find it hard to believe that colleges don't teach their TEs to block It certainly is tough for us. But also I think that is something teams need to target on purpose. You hear so much about this being a passing league and that seems to make people think you just need a TE that can go and catch the ball, but being able to disguise what he is doing makes him so much better.
This is what I want in a TE prospect "PlayerX can lead block in the running game and has the power and bend to anchor against pass-rushers. As a receiver, PlayerX has terrific length, and very good straight-line speed, with reliable hands. He doesn't run a wide variety of routes and doesn't display sudden or sharp breaks in his routes."
He can block and has reliable hands. Not some super freak athlete that can be in the Olympics but a football player that can do the things a TE needs. That is a scouting report on Travis Kelce.
while reading through your post I was thinking of Travis Kelce and then I read that you thought the same, to me Kelce is a proto- typical TE and there aren't too many of those guys around.. |
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Post by McCherry on Jan 21, 2021 10:51:27 GMT -5
It certainly is tough for us. But also I think that is something teams need to target on purpose. You hear so much about this being a passing league and that seems to make people think you just need a TE that can go and catch the ball, but being able to disguise what he is doing makes him so much better.
This is what I want in a TE prospect "PlayerX can lead block in the running game and has the power and bend to anchor against pass-rushers. As a receiver, PlayerX has terrific length, and very good straight-line speed, with reliable hands. He doesn't run a wide variety of routes and doesn't display sudden or sharp breaks in his routes."
He can block and has reliable hands. Not some super freak athlete that can be in the Olympics but a football player that can do the things a TE needs. That is a scouting report on Travis Kelce.
while reading through your post I was thinking of Travis Kelce and then I read that you thought the same, to me Kelce is a proto- typical TE and there aren't too many of those guys around.. Kelce is a great route runner who can make quick breaks for a big guy. Which is a main reason why he's a league leader in separation. |
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