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Post by allnygin on Nov 28, 2021 18:04:55 GMT -5
gotta disagree my guy, they certainly would put up better numbers. Take today for instance, we were spotted free points time and time again with turnovers etc and still only put up 13 points. Yes, the oline is trash, but Jones isn't very good either. 20tds in a season and a half.. nah.. that's on DJ just as much as the oline Can't argue it he is having a rough time for sure, I still don't believe we would get much more out of anyone else right now i mean the game plan has to be limited because of time constraints, I'm not saying completely he isn't the problem what I want to know is who he is when he has what most QBs have some time a decent run game, might not see it here maybe else where. Yeah I hear that. Look - End of the day, we just need to hope whoever is the new GM starts to build this team right if so who know maybe Jones pans out.
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Post by Kruunch on Nov 28, 2021 18:08:01 GMT -5
Good quarterbacks don’t need everything working for them to succeed. It helps, sure. But, when the price tag is going to be $20 million next year. I want the quarterback to rise to the occasion, instead of falling with the rest of them. You’re right. And I’m not saying he’s a top flight QB. I’m saying it’s impossible to judge the guy with this Oline. They’re one of the worst in the league. Agreed. However, the training wheels are off. It’s time to take that step into uncharted waters. Where you go from mediocre, to very good quarterback. Every team could use an abundance of excuses, and some of them would hold weight. But, we need to put the excuses on the back burner. And expect better from our players. Especially, our quarterback. I don’t know about you guys, but I want playoffs. And if we want to get invited to the dance. Our quarterback, has to play better. Win with him, instead of in-spite of him.
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Post by Jomo on Nov 28, 2021 18:08:24 GMT -5
I know that for the whole game they kept showing a stat line with an interception. Were they miscounting Engram's tip where the defender was out of bounds or did I miss a pick??
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 28, 2021 18:08:26 GMT -5
Can't argue it he is having a rough time for sure, I still don't believe we would get much more out of anyone else right now i mean the game plan has to be limited because of time constraints, I'm not saying completely he isn't the problem what I want to know is who he is when he has what most QBs have some time a decent run game, might not see it here maybe else where. Yeah I hear that. Look - End of the day, we just need to hope whoever is the new GM starts to build this team right if so who know maybe Jones pans out. Any complete rebuild that includes a new franchise qb must also include a young talented o line and playmakers on rookie deals at the same time .... This was not done even remotely correctly... So here we are Watching Lawrence also getting ruined already gives me no solace because that guy should have been a top 10 qb out of the box..
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 28, 2021 18:09:14 GMT -5
I know that for the whole game they kept showing a stat line with an interception. Were they miscounting Engram's tip where the defender was out of bounds or did I miss a pick?? 1 TD and nothing near the INT .I thought the same thing
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Post by allnygin on Nov 28, 2021 18:09:32 GMT -5
Yeah I hear that. Look - End of the day, we just need to hope whoever is the new GM starts to build this team right if so who know maybe Jones pans out. Any complete rebuild that includes a new franchise qb must also include a young talented o line and playmakers on rookie deals at the same time .... This was not done even remotely correctly... So here we are Watching Lawrence also getting ruined already gives me no solace because that guy should have been a top 10 qb out of the box.. This is correct, while I do have my reservations about Daniel Jones, I cannont deny that he was set up for failure, bc he was. Gettlemen did not properly build this team and it shows four years later.
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FBomb
Special Teams
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Post by FBomb on Nov 28, 2021 18:10:31 GMT -5
He "managed" not to lose. 👌
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 28, 2021 18:11:26 GMT -5
Can't argue it he is having a rough time for sure, I still don't believe we would get much more out of anyone else right now i mean the game plan has to be limited because of time constraints, I'm not saying completely he isn't the problem what I want to know is who he is when he has what most QBs have some time a decent run game, might not see it here maybe else where. Yeah I hear that. Look - End of the day, we just need to hope whoever is the new GM starts to build this team right if so who know maybe Jones pans out. I have to say the last 2 tried they draft OL and DL both failed miserably the next GM needs to get the right people around him scouts director of scouting player acquisition and so on.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 28, 2021 18:12:08 GMT -5
I know that for the whole game they kept showing a stat line with an interception. Were they miscounting Engram's tip where the defender was out of bounds or did I miss a pick?? 1 TD and nothing near the INT .I thought the same thing Yea there was 0 picks.
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Post by Delicreep on Nov 28, 2021 18:16:08 GMT -5
People tend to forget getting cooked by the Rams, Broncos, Cowboys, and Bucs. Even with a good oline, this team was not beating them nor would they do what they're allergic to doing, which is score 30 points. If only we made that one block, or got that extra yard we would be 11-0 right now. Look, I’m happy about the win. Ugly wins are better than pretty losses. And that game, was elephant man ugly. But, when fans have to take out the excuse book and cite page 23 on why the team performs the way they do. It goes on deaf ears. Topic of this thread is Daniel Jones, and yet everyone and their mothers are pointing the finger at the offensive line. Earth to fans, we all know the line blows. Their is no such thing as a perfect scenario. I’m sure the whole league wishes all their players were healthy, and playing like hall of famers. When I see a 3rd year quarterback who needs everything to go right to be pedestrian, he’s not the quarterback for me. We won this game on the backs of our defense, and the arm of Jalen Hurts.. Oh...I think it's worse than that. Look, I get that you take what you get in the NFL, but realistically, what were the stellar plays the D made today? I would describe all 3 INT's as horrible decisions and even worse execution. Stopping the run? Our D looked like prize pig only because the Filthadelphia O made them look that way.
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 28, 2021 18:16:30 GMT -5
Yeah I hear that. Look - End of the day, we just need to hope whoever is the new GM starts to build this team right if so who know maybe Jones pans out. I have to say the last 2 tried they draft OL and DL both failed miserably the next GM needs to get the right people around him scouts director of scouting player acquisition and so on. Like Jones we don't know about Peart because they refuse to play him So? Lemieux...?
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Post by allnygin on Nov 28, 2021 18:17:11 GMT -5
Yeah I hear that. Look - End of the day, we just need to hope whoever is the new GM starts to build this team right if so who know maybe Jones pans out. I have to say the last 2 tried they draft OL and DL both failed miserably the next GM needs to get the right people around him scouts director of scouting player acquisition and so on. I hope its someone outside of this org and has absolutely no ties to Mara at all. IT might not mean success, hell that could turn out to be the wrong move, but I just want something different. So far I've been hearing Abrams name thrown around alot and even something about the patriots field office, both of which I would not be thrilled by.. so likely it'll be one or the other haha
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 28, 2021 18:21:13 GMT -5
I have to say the last 2 tried they draft OL and DL both failed miserably the next GM needs to get the right people around him scouts director of scouting player acquisition and so on. I hope its someone outside of this org and has absolutely no ties to Mara at all. IT might not mean success, hell that could turn out to be the wrong move, but I just want something different. So far I've been hearing Abrams name thrown around alot and even something about the patriots field office, both of which I would not be thrilled by.. so likely it'll be one or the other haha The Patriots can find O linemen everywhere in the draft and have good backups They also know how to draft for a system very similar to what Graham runs.... Definitely NOT th Giants way.. Ossenfort is part of a front office that up until they got destroyed by injuries quickly retooled their entire secondary and lines.. I have no issues with those guys
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Post by McCherry on Nov 28, 2021 18:23:40 GMT -5
I have to say the last 2 tried they draft OL and DL both failed miserably the next GM needs to get the right people around him scouts director of scouting player acquisition and so on. Like Jones we don't know about Peart because they refuse to play him So? Lemieux...? I was hoping he’d make it back this year. Lemiuex was a well regarded prospect, so I hope he gets a chance to compete at LG at some point.
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Post by allnygin on Nov 28, 2021 18:25:19 GMT -5
I hope its someone outside of this org and has absolutely no ties to Mara at all. IT might not mean success, hell that could turn out to be the wrong move, but I just want something different. So far I've been hearing Abrams name thrown around alot and even something about the patriots field office, both of which I would not be thrilled by.. so likely it'll be one or the other haha The Patriots can find O linemen everywhere in the draft and have good backups They also know how to draft for a system very similar to what Graham runs.... Definitely NOT th Giants way.. Ossenfort is part of a front office that up until they got destroyed by injuries quickly retooled their entire secondary and lines.. I have no issues with those guys This is fair, but my only reservation is how much influence is it bc of Billy B? I don't trust anything out of NE bc he has his stamp all over that team. Besides everyone else who's come out of there has failed and failed miserably. I didn't play attention to the texans draft after the patriots ex GM was hired this ofseason by them, but that'll be interesting to watch develop. But hey, even though I think their success largely lingers do to bill who knows maybe i'm wrong and not giving those guys enough credit when they deserve it.. I wouldnt mind a guy like Ed Dodds’s, they did a good job building that team imo.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Nov 28, 2021 18:32:10 GMT -5
meh Let's see if Kitchen's opens up the offense next week, after a full week of practice and of course one game under their belts. It was a short week after the Monday night game. Kitchens did try and put the ball in Barkley and Golodays hands more. Which was what I think most of us wanted. Next week now more can be added. But this 1 TD a game crap needs to be over with. Hell i was complaining when we could only score 2 TD's a game. Now in 2 weeks we score a TD pass to our OT on a trick play. And a TD to a fullback that never scored before and I never heard of before todays game. Plus the first down catch after being knocked down and getting back up. And I think he played great. 11 games in and Toney and Goloday don't have a TD. Barcley started 2 games in a row..... call your friends. Had a 32 yd run and wound up with 40 yds rushing. And I'm glad for every down he played and every yd he gained run and catch. God this offense needs fixing.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 28, 2021 19:33:42 GMT -5
I have to say the last 2 tried they draft OL and DL both failed miserably the next GM needs to get the right people around him scouts director of scouting player acquisition and so on. I hope its someone outside of this org and has absolutely no ties to Mara at all. IT might not mean success, hell that could turn out to be the wrong move, but I just want something different. So far I've been hearing Abrams name thrown around alot and even something about the patriots field office, both of which I would not be thrilled by.. so likely it'll be one or the other haha I agree this has been 10 years of insanity doing the same thing over and over hoping for a different outcome time for new thoughts voices and answers to the game as it is played today.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 28, 2021 19:36:26 GMT -5
I have to say the last 2 tried they draft OL and DL both failed miserably the next GM needs to get the right people around him scouts director of scouting player acquisition and so on. Like Jones we don't know about Peart because they refuse to play him So? Lemieux...? Lemieux the little we did see of him his passpro was really good Peart i have no idea what judge is thinking it seems like he has done more when on the field they had a solid sample size while AT was out.
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Post by jb456 on Nov 28, 2021 19:37:50 GMT -5
It's looking more like this but now what? I don't think this is a strong QB class. Can't just draft a QB for the sake of it. The Giants are in the suck for at least 3 more years. Totally blows. This ****ing meaningless win better not save anyone....
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Post by thetruth on Nov 28, 2021 20:10:30 GMT -5
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Post by bluebuddha on Nov 28, 2021 21:04:06 GMT -5
I just Realized that Hal Hunter was our best oline coach in recent years. That was our last best offense passing and running. Really sad that even with a stud left tackle this oline sucks more than the garbage Hunter put out. The worst part is is this years oline has been giving up 1 less sack a game than the previous 3 years but our offensive points, passing and running yardage is pretty abysmal.l
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Paula
Special Teams
Posts: 188
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Post by Paula on Nov 28, 2021 21:06:11 GMT -5
4 take aways by the defense, and the giants barely won. The offense is bad. Jones is part of the bad.
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 28, 2021 21:07:22 GMT -5
I just Realized that Hal Hunter was our best oline coach in recent years. That was our last best offense passing and running. Really sad that even with a stud left tackle this oline sucks more than the garbage Hunter put out. The worst part is is this years oline has been giving up 1 less sack a game than the previous 3 years but our offensive points, passing and running yardage is pretty abysmal.l Sale has been a godsend. He had this motley crew actually functional for a while until teams figured out how to attack these guy's weaknesses...
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 28, 2021 21:19:26 GMT -5
The 1 TD is suspect... lol
That guy I never heard of did not catch that ball.
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Post by Roswell on Nov 28, 2021 21:21:50 GMT -5
The 1 TD is suspect... lol That guy I never heard of did not catch that ball. Yes he did. Barely. Luckily. But he caught it.
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Post by repeatchamps on Nov 28, 2021 23:26:09 GMT -5
As far as I'm concerned we are probably in salvage mode with Jones starting this week. This is more a post about the offense in general which includes Jones I am one of the few here that actually think he could reach the upside I saw way back. He looked confident today Professional level pocket presence and felt the pressure and climbed the pocket,seemed to not be locking on reads unless they were there for the most part. Also seemed very comfortable changing plays at the line (first time he was allowed to control and manage it at the line like this in this offense) I spoke of symptoms in the game thread and treatments First symptom was identified and treated While not apparent stat wise Kitchen's playcalling gets a high grade. Definitely looked like plays were called to take advantage of what players can do,schemed players open,great route combos(that play where Ross ran a mid level crossing pattern underneath Engram running a deep corner,wow,what a concept,wide open) Some exotic ideas (a flea flicker screen of all things,I have never seen this play at any level in all my 45 plus years of watching football) 3 RBs in the backfield (Brightwell,Barkley and Penny) Lots of motion... Tbe TD drive,taking numerous shots into the end zone...tbe 1st and goal from the 1 call. A modern wham block by the TE in the middle that sprung Barkley.. Unfortunately execution was D level at times,mainly the fact the entire O line to the right of Thomas is still a mess...could not get any consistent push in tbe running game...Solder is horrific...complete blew that end around where if he just gets in the way Slayton had room on that side.. Hernandez still can't block stunts..... Needless false start by Skuda that cost the team a chance to continue that long drive at the end of the 4th... Also ... While the play designs looked great and would have worked if executed.. When you have a freshly off the street guy in Cooper running the plays that were designed for Toney,routes that Shepard run...it's not going to go quite the way you want.. Jones did enough to help the team win,key throws in that long last drive that made the score more than a FG... He will be here the rest of this year and 2022...salvage mode. I agree with everything posted here. Anyone who has eyes can see that Garrett's firing was the best possible decision. Let us also note that Gano also had a rare missed FG on a 4th and 3, that maybe they could have gone for it, but even if they didn't they win by 9 if Gano makes the FG. Make the FG and it would be a 13-0 lead after the lone Giants TD. This would have forced Philly to throw even earlier. If they had to throw even more, sooner, Giants defense may have had even more picks and maybe they end up truly blowing them out. That said +4 on turnovers needs to yield more than 13 points.
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Post by repeatchamps on Nov 28, 2021 23:34:58 GMT -5
I would use every pick on the OL...if fans don't quite get the reasons why nothing on offense works by now, I would suggest they watch some soccer ....and to think we failed to take a single blocker last year...absurdity by yes, the guy who needs to go...the inept Dave Gettleman How many times have we seen the Giants in the red zone and the Oline commits a penalty or gives up a sack? Maybe an easier question is how many times has that not happened. I think Hernandez means horrendous in Spanish. Price and Skura get mauled on a regular basis. Calling Solder a turnstile is an insult to turnstiles everywhere. Lol at the Hernandez comment. That said Keith would disagree.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Nov 29, 2021 0:23:55 GMT -5
As a matter of fact I do. We weren't that decimated on offense today. Maybe you're cool with putting up 13 points in a game where the defense takes the ball away 4 times, gets a 4th down stop, and only gives up 7....but I'm not. Not from a so called franchise qb. He had a future hof rb in the backfield and a $70 million wr1 on the outside (lol). Seriously though, you're reaching for excuses at this point. Jones doesn't seem to play the game within the game, and he doesn't seem to elevate anyone. Eli used to make no name guys look serviceable all the time. I had this talk with my BIL today . He is a cowboys fan. He pointed out OBJ, Shep, Engram and Saquan best years came with Eli at QB. He said he likes DJ but he is glad he is the Giants QB because there was a time the combo of EE, SB and Shep looked like a mismatch for the Cowboys D not so much anymore. OBJ never played with DJ. Saquon has not been the Saquon of old because of injuries not because of DJ. Shep actually had career highs last season with DJ. Shep was even on a better pace this season before injury. So that leaves us with EE who had one of his best catch years last season despite a much worse Oline.
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Post by Nite on Nov 29, 2021 0:42:39 GMT -5
He will make a good backup qb ...somewhere
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Post by GameTime on Nov 29, 2021 5:54:58 GMT -5
kid has skills he just cant get it together.
Some of that is on him and some of it is the team in front of him and staff.
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