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Post by DJones19 on Nov 29, 2021 21:39:51 GMT -5
so what is the problem with our offense, bad QB play, bad coaching or just plain low talent on the O line. This thing has been ongoing for too long for it not to identified and fixed... Garrett pointed his finger at the play of the offensive line a few days before he was fired. He didn’t throw them under the bus but said a few things that made it sound like he knew it was a problem. |
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Post by hogmollies on Nov 29, 2021 21:44:15 GMT -5
We'd be insane to not bring competition this offseason for DJ. With a competent vet we can make the playoffs with this defense.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Nov 29, 2021 21:47:40 GMT -5
so what is the problem with our offense, bad QB play, bad coaching or just plain low talent on the O line. This thing has been ongoing for too long for it not to identified and fixed... Garrett pointed his finger at the play of the offensive line a few days before he was fired. He didn’t throw them under the bus but seemed like he knew he said a few things that made it sound like he knew it was a problem.LOL that made me laugh. If any coach in the USA does not know our Oline is a huge problem they should be fired ASAP. I do not care if that is Jason Garrett or a guy in Toledo coaching his 8 year old daughters T ball team.  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2021 7:13:55 GMT -5
I don't see it the way you are claiming it could go. The cost for him is going to be high if you except the 5th year or not..
Too fn bad if his ego is hurt by them making him prove it in 22!!
Well, the 5th year = $20M Franchising him in 2023 would be approx $31M Exending him would probably be around $35-38M per I'm not seeing a 20 million dollar QB as of yet and IF he develops into one during the 4th year then I still don't think he will command a 30 million a year contract.. We will have to agree to disagree on this one and see how to plays it out.. |
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Post by nick030567 on Nov 30, 2021 7:49:18 GMT -5
I just look at Colt McCoy. He looks a lot better playing for Arizona than he looked playing for us. Still has a small arm but makes a big difference to have an actual team in front of him. Maybe it helps that I only watch football, but people really don't get that it's the ultimate team sport. This isn't basketball, baseball, golf or soccer. Jones is a very talented QB who has been given the David Carr treatment. It's amazing he still looks as good as he does. Fans see that as "excuses" though. Because ya know, context is inconvenient to their display of emotionalism |
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Post by GameTime on Nov 30, 2021 8:14:10 GMT -5
I just look at Colt McCoy. He looks a lot better playing for Arizona than he looked playing for us. Still has a small arm but makes a big difference to have an actual team in front of him. Maybe it helps that I only watch football, but people really don't get that it's the ultimate team sport. This isn't basketball, baseball, golf or soccer. Jones is a very talented QB who has been given the David Carr treatment. It's amazing he still looks as good as he does. Fans see that as "excuses" though. Because ya know, context is inconvenient to their display of emotionalism no question he is being asked to make something good from a questionable roster. With that said there is a a lot of talent on the offense but there are also issues with his game that Jones has beyond the roster etc. He just doesnt see the field well enough even when he has time. Recently he is also playing in a panic state. His skillset has some good stuff but he is not consistent at all. |
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Post by cdngfan on Nov 30, 2021 8:27:35 GMT -5
Really wanted DJ to pull it all together because his skill set is really good and effective. Good arm, mostly accurate, athletic etc. Yesterday he even seemed to have good pocket awareness. His vision of the field has now become his biggest hurdle. Too bad. He just cant seem to get it all together and be consistent. Yep. Feel the same way. His field vision is emerging as more of a problem. It’ll improve with a better line because there’s some panic in his decisions, but that can be said of every QB. Wilson completely missed seeing a wide open Metcalf to tie the game last night. Same thing. He’s panicky. |
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Post by GameTime on Nov 30, 2021 8:28:54 GMT -5
Really wanted DJ to pull it all together because his skill set is really good and effective. Good arm, mostly accurate, athletic etc. Yesterday he even seemed to have good pocket awareness. His vision of the field has now become his biggest hurdle. Too bad. He just cant seem to get it all together and be consistent. Yep. Feel the same way. His field vision is emerging as more of a problem. It’ll improve with a better line because there’s some panic in his decisions, but that can be said of every QB. Wilson completely missed seeing a wide open Metcalf to tie the game last night. Same thing. He’s panicky. even when Jones has time he is not surveying the field. I guess thats all part of the pocket awareness etc. |
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Post by Rangers13 on Nov 30, 2021 8:37:28 GMT -5
I just look at Colt McCoy. He looks a lot better playing for Arizona than he looked playing for us. Still has a small arm but makes a big difference to have an actual team in front of him. 1 Maybe it helps that I only watch football, but people really don't get that it's the ultimate team sport. This isn't basketball, baseball, golf or soccer. 2 Jones is a very talented QB who has been given the David Carr treatment. It's amazing he still looks as good as he does. 3 Fans see that as "excuses" though. Because ya know, context is inconvenient to their display of emotionalism 1. you don’t get football is the ultimate team sport? Then mention basketball which is all team, baseball which is often one on one or one on two until the ball is in play, golf which is an individual sport followed by soccer which like basketball is all team. 2. Everybody knows David Carr had no blocking 3. What? |
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Post by kerryisdaman on Nov 30, 2021 8:51:17 GMT -5
I just look at Colt McCoy. He looks a lot better playing for Arizona than he looked playing for us. Still has a small arm but makes a big difference to have an actual team in front of him. Maybe it helps that I only watch football, but people really don't get that it's the ultimate team sport. This isn't basketball, baseball, golf or soccer. Jones is a very talented QB who has been given the David Carr treatment. It's amazing he still looks as good as he does. Fans see that as "excuses" though. Because ya know, context is inconvenient to their display of emotionalism The name Manning is brought up a lot on this board but its the wrong Manning. Eli did not play under these conditions. Eli had some bad conditions at times but not as bad as these. The right Manning to look at as a comparison would be Archie Manning. He played under some equally bad conditions. |
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Post by cdngfan on Nov 30, 2021 8:59:26 GMT -5
Yep. Feel the same way. His field vision is emerging as more of a problem. It’ll improve with a better line because there’s some panic in his decisions, but that can be said of every QB. Wilson completely missed seeing a wide open Metcalf to tie the game last night. Same thing. He’s panicky. even when Jones has time he is not surveying the field. I guess thats all part of the pocket awareness etc. Agree, but having time on a play and running for your life on the next one doesn’t help develop that calmer target progression. This just may be who he is. Like every QB in the world you give him a adequate running game and consistent protection and he’ll play much better. But I’ve already accepted the fact that if we have a good o line and running game, what we’ve been seeing now is basically what we’ll see against good defences that consistently pressure him. So this version of DJ won’t just disappear with a competent o line. All that being said, I’ll take his warts for now. Great QBs are harder to find than great players in any other position. We need way above average draft performance in order to make up for the poor choices we’ve made over the last 7-10 years. I’m ready for some BPA in deep areas of the draft so we actually have some pieces to use. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2021 9:03:14 GMT -5
even when Jones has time he is not surveying the field. I guess thats all part of the pocket awareness etc. Agree, but having time on a play and running for your life on the next one doesn’t help develop that calmer target progression. This just may be who he is. Like every QB in the world you give him a adequate running game and consistent protection and he’ll play much better. But I’ve already accepted the fact that if we have a good o line and running game, what we’ve been seeing now is basically what we’ll see against good defences that consistently pressure him. So this version of DJ won’t just disappear with a competent o line. All that being said, I’ll take his warts for now. Great QBs are harder to find than great players in any other position. We need way above average draft performance in order to make up for the poor choices we’ve made over the last 7-10 years. I’m ready for some BPA in deep areas of the draft so we actually have some pieces to use. I hope they make the correct choices this time!! |
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Post by nick030567 on Nov 30, 2021 9:19:51 GMT -5
1 Maybe it helps that I only watch football, but people really don't get that it's the ultimate team sport. This isn't basketball, baseball, golf or soccer. 2 Jones is a very talented QB who has been given the David Carr treatment. It's amazing he still looks as good as he does. 3 Fans see that as "excuses" though. Because ya know, context is inconvenient to their display of emotionalism 1. you don’t get football is the ultimate team sport? Then mention basketball which is all team, baseball which is often one on one or one on two until the ball is in play, golf which is an individual sport followed by soccer which like basketball is all team. 2. Everybody knows David Carr had no blocking 3. What? Yes those are all team sports. I meant I don't watch them religiously. I have watched and played all of them though. I'm sure you've heard many football/sports "experts" say that football is the ultimate team sport right?? Ultimate* being key word. Not ONLY* team sport 😁 David Carr had no blocking, poor coaching and subpar weapons aside from Andre Johnson (who came to the Texans in what, 2005?). Similar to Jones. DJ has zero consistency around him. His inconsistency is a direct byproduct of that. Yet he is all heart and still makes progress in all aspects of his game. But I do think the giants have plenty of weapons right now. Playcalling has largely been the problem this season. I did like a lot of what Kitchens did though, especially on a short week. My third paragraph is a reference those types of people who think context=excuses. People don't like context because then they have to actually relate to and understand the other person instead of lashing out in anger. |
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Post by cdngfan on Nov 30, 2021 9:23:47 GMT -5
Agree, but having time on a play and running for your life on the next one doesn’t help develop that calmer target progression. This just may be who he is. Like every QB in the world you give him a adequate running game and consistent protection and he’ll play much better. But I’ve already accepted the fact that if we have a good o line and running game, what we’ve been seeing now is basically what we’ll see against good defences that consistently pressure him. So this version of DJ won’t just disappear with a competent o line. All that being said, I’ll take his warts for now. Great QBs are harder to find than great players in any other position. We need way above average draft performance in order to make up for the poor choices we’ve made over the last 7-10 years. I’m ready for some BPA in deep areas of the draft so we actually have some pieces to use. I hope they make the correct choices this time!! I don’t really care if they choose players in positions that we already have talent in. Just pick starters or quality depth in later rounds. Just that is a huge improvement. |
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Post by GameTime on Nov 30, 2021 9:37:30 GMT -5
even when Jones has time he is not surveying the field. I guess thats all part of the pocket awareness etc. Agree, but having time on a play and running for your life on the next one doesn’t help develop that calmer target progression. This just may be who he is. Like every QB in the world you give him a adequate running game and consistent protection and he’ll play much better. But I’ve already accepted the fact that if we have a good o line and running game, what we’ve been seeing now is basically what we’ll see against good defences that consistently pressure him. So this version of DJ won’t just disappear with a competent o line. All that being said, I’ll take his warts for now. Great QBs are harder to find than great players in any other position. We need way above average draft performance in order to make up for the poor choices we’ve made over the last 7-10 years. I’m ready for some BPA in deep areas of the draft so we actually have some pieces to use. its pretty amazing how in consistent and lame the running game can be. In huge moments they go backwards. |
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Post by Rangers13 on Nov 30, 2021 9:46:10 GMT -5
1. you don’t get football is the ultimate team sport? Then mention basketball which is all team, baseball which is often one on one or one on two until the ball is in play, golf which is an individual sport followed by soccer which like basketball is all team. 2. Everybody knows David Carr had no blocking 3. What? Yes those are all team sports. I meant I don't watch them religiously. I have watched and played all of them though. I'm sure you've heard many football/sports "experts" say that football is the ultimate team sport right?? Ultimate* being key word. Not ONLY* team sport 😁 David Carr had no blocking, poor coaching and subpar weapons aside from Andre Johnson (who came to the Texans in what, 2005?). Similar to Jones. DJ has zero consistency around him. His inconsistency is a direct byproduct of that. Yet he is all heart and still makes progress in all aspects of his game. But I do think the giants have plenty of weapons right now. Playcalling has largely been the problem this season. I did like a lot of what Kitchens did though, especially on a short week. My third paragraph is a reference those types of people who think context=excuses. People don't like context because then they have to actually relate to and understand the other person instead of lashing out in anger. there is certainly a cancel culture mentality aimed at the QB, coach and any poster debating otherwise from some. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2021 9:46:37 GMT -5
I hope they make the correct choices this time!! I don’t really care if they choose players in positions that we already have talent in. Just pick starters or quality depth in later rounds. Just that is a huge improvement. I'm hoping the hype about the trenches this up coming draft are correct and they go in that area. No more perimeter players for me and a 3rd day RB at best this draft.. |
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Post by Rangers13 on Nov 30, 2021 9:49:55 GMT -5
I hope they make the correct choices this time!! I don’t really care if they choose players in positions that we already have talent in. Just pick starters or quality depth in later rounds. Just that is a huge improvement. Despite the glaring need at OL we might yet again be in the BAP mentality. What can you do? Just never getting the ROI from these picks. Barkley has been a disappointment, Jones has been a disappointment . . . Flowers, Apple, OBJ situation, Engram for the most part, these offensive linemen, a plethora of linebackers, the free agents, etc. It’s a mess. |
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Post by cdngfan on Nov 30, 2021 9:54:56 GMT -5
I don’t really care if they choose players in positions that we already have talent in. Just pick starters or quality depth in later rounds. Just that is a huge improvement. I'm hoping the hype about the trenches this up coming draft are correct and they go in that area. No more perimeter players for me and a 3rd day RB at best this draft.. Same. We’ll see holes develop on the perimeter when we focus our draft on the interior (just the nature of football) but the gameplan scheming that has to go on to make up for our weaknesses at the LOS is so limiting that it has to be addressed. Has to. Being in Toronto I hear a lot of Buffalo Bills chatter. The upsets they’ve seen this season is creating a “we need a running game” push from the fan base. As a Giants fan who has watched Josh Allen more than most I find it really interesting that being one dimensional in the NFL will only get you so far. They’re seeing it in Buffalo. Sure you can have a spectacular piece that hides a glaring deficiency, but finding a spectacular piece is a complete gamble. Addressing the weakness is easier. |
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Post by nyg2 on Nov 30, 2021 9:59:36 GMT -5
Really wanted DJ to pull it all together because his skill set is really good and effective. Good arm, mostly accurate, athletic etc. Yesterday he even seemed to have good pocket awareness. His vision of the field has now become his biggest hurdle. Too bad. He just cant seem to get it all together and be consistent. This is the NFL, everyone has the skill set to be "the guy". How many times have you heard of a first round QB taken where someone said they don't have the "skills" to be a really good QB in the league? |
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Post by cdngfan on Nov 30, 2021 9:59:54 GMT -5
I don’t really care if they choose players in positions that we already have talent in. Just pick starters or quality depth in later rounds. Just that is a huge improvement. Despite the glaring need at OL we might yet again be in the BAP mentality. What can you do? Just never getting the ROI from these picks. Barkley has been a disappointment, Jones has been a disappointment . . . Flowers, Apple, OBJ situation, Engram for the most part, these offensive linemen, a plethora of linebackers, the free agents, etc. It’s a mess. Exactly. I think there’s enough depth in edge rushers and o line that you can pick up some pieces within reason. But we need the discipline to not just fall in love with the best o lineman available because we desperately need o linemen (lots of them). Regardless of Flowers new found talent, we can’t have another Flowers pick. Top 10 that literally can’t start, because we picked for need. But more than anything we can’t keep missing so much on high draft picks. |
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Post by Roswell on Nov 30, 2021 12:21:11 GMT -5
so what is the problem with our offense, bad QB play, bad coaching or just plain low talent on the O line. This thing has been ongoing for too long for it not to identified and fixed... There’s been bad QB play some of the time, bad coaching a lot of the time and overall bad Oline play most of the time. And the Oline play is so bad that it is almost insurmountable for the QB and the coaches. It’s that bad. Fix the Oline and every aspect of their offense will dramatically improve. |
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Post by bizcliz on Nov 30, 2021 12:30:10 GMT -5
so what is the problem with our offense, bad QB play, bad coaching or just plain low talent on the O line. This thing has been ongoing for too long for it not to identified and fixed... There’s been bad QB play some of the time, bad coaching a lot of the time and overall bad Oline play most of the time. And the Oline play is so bad that it is almost insurmountable for the QB and the coaches. It’s that bad. Fix the Oline and every aspect of their offense will dramatically improve. My worry for Jones is that bad OL play and decision making based off of that (and Garrett's dumbass philosophy) has been drilled irreparably into his head. There's only one way to find out if I'm wrong, but we'll see. Regardless, there needs to be heavy and focused investments into OL this offseason with the draft. They legitimately have a chance to draft a blue chip C (Lindebaum) and blue chip T (Evan Neal) within a few picks of each other. |
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Post by Roswell on Nov 30, 2021 12:33:48 GMT -5
There’s been bad QB play some of the time, bad coaching a lot of the time and overall bad Oline play most of the time. And the Oline play is so bad that it is almost insurmountable for the QB and the coaches. It’s that bad. Fix the Oline and every aspect of their offense will dramatically improve. My worry for Jones is that bad OL play and decision making based off of that (and Garrett's dumbass philosophy) has been drilled irreparably into his head. There's only one way to find out if I'm wrong, but we'll see. Regardless, there needs to be heavy and focused investments into OL this offseason with the draft. They legitimately have a chance to draft a blue chip C (Lindebaum) and blue chip T (Evan Neal) within a few picks of each other. I hope they get both. And a guard or two as well. Keep Thomas and change out the other four. Unless Gates can return as a guard but, considering his injury, that might not be possible. The cupboard is almost bare, so if the value’s there, commit the resources and really address the problem. No more half assing it. |
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Post by GameTime on Nov 30, 2021 12:46:03 GMT -5
Really wanted DJ to pull it all together because his skill set is really good and effective. Good arm, mostly accurate, athletic etc. Yesterday he even seemed to have good pocket awareness. His vision of the field has now become his biggest hurdle. Too bad. He just cant seem to get it all together and be consistent. This is the NFL, everyone has the skill set to be "the guy". How many times have you heard of a first round QB taken where someone said they don't have the "skills" to be a really good QB in the league? actually....no they dont. Especially when it comes to QBs and becoming a franchise QB. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2021 12:53:38 GMT -5
This is the NFL, everyone has the skill set to be "the guy". How many times have you heard of a first round QB taken where someone said they don't have the "skills" to be a really good QB in the league? actually....no they dont. Especially when it comes to QBs and becoming a franchise QB. You just hurt Hurts' feeling!! Way to go.. |
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Post by McCherry on Nov 30, 2021 12:53:49 GMT -5
This is the NFL, everyone has the skill set to be "the guy". How many times have you heard of a first round QB taken where someone said they don't have the "skills" to be a really good QB in the league? actually....no they dont. Especially when it comes to QBs and becoming a franchise QB. They all have the talent, playing big under pressure is what separates franchise QB's from the rest. |
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nyg2
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Post by nyg2 on Nov 30, 2021 13:05:39 GMT -5
This is the NFL, everyone has the skill set to be "the guy". How many times have you heard of a first round QB taken where someone said they don't have the "skills" to be a really good QB in the league? actually....no they dont. Especially when it comes to QBs and becoming a franchise QB. Name a QB taken in the first round, in the past 10 years that didn't have the "skills" to be a franchise QB. "He has the skills to be a franchise QB" is one of the most overused platitudes in this league. |
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Post by GameTime on Nov 30, 2021 13:21:35 GMT -5
actually....no they dont. Especially when it comes to QBs and becoming a franchise QB. They all have the talent, playing big under pressure is what separates franchise QB's from the rest. of course they all have talent but they all dont have the necessary skills to be a legit franchise QB |
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Post by GameTime on Nov 30, 2021 13:30:42 GMT -5
actually....no they dont. Especially when it comes to QBs and becoming a franchise QB. Name a QB taken in the first round, in the past 10 years that didn't have the "skills" to be a franchise QB. "He has the skills to be a franchise QB" is one of the most overused platitudes in this league. you think its an over used platitude yet you agree with it. We dont have to agree. Who thinks a top 10 QB has the skills or doesnt is subjective. Skillset also incudes enough mental ability to run and understand a pro offense correctly and attitude. This is where most fail |
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