|
Post by kerryisdaman on Nov 29, 2021 10:52:02 GMT -5
Well please tell me all the QBs in the NFL that are excelling with a worst Oline and running game than the Giants. I would like to see that for myself. As far as today goes please tell me what you would do differently. For example late in the game we had a bad set of downs. On first down the RB takes a loss. On second down we have 3 receivers blocking and nobody looking at the QB for the ball. I think the 3rd play was a run for a yard. So you are our new QB. What would you have done to get us in the end zone in those 3 plays? If only we had two beast OL instead of a useless RB and broken gadget toy WR. No argument there. If we had 2 monster bookends on our line we would be having a different season in my opinion. The middle of the line would still be bad but serviceable.
|
|
|
Post by Parademon1 on Nov 29, 2021 10:52:33 GMT -5
In the past 5 games, the D has allowed a total of 76 pts or 15.2 ppg , Our O has put up 88pts in that same 5 game span for an avg of 17.6 ppg, we're 3-2 but if we could just have been scoring an avg of 24ppg, we could've been 4-1. Since week 4, we've played 500 ball & should be 5-3 but we blew the KC game. This team is one good heavy OL draft away from being a contender imo. Fix the trenches next yr & we are back in business & DJ might actually turn out to be a good QB for this team. Even with all the injuries to our key offensive weapons & losing our best defensive player in Martinez, we could easily be a 7-4 team tied with Dallas for 1st, but we blew the Skins/Atl/KC games due to stupid bonehead penalties & dropped Ints. Fix the trenches & we will be a team to be reckoned with next yr & beyond.
|
|
|
Post by bluebuddha on Nov 29, 2021 10:59:45 GMT -5
I had this talk with my BIL today . He is a cowboys fan. He pointed out OBJ, Shep, Engram and Saquan best years came with Eli at QB. He said he likes DJ but he is glad he is the Giants QB because there was a time the combo of EE, SB and Shep looked like a mismatch for the Cowboys D not so much anymore. OBJ never played with DJ. Saquon has not been the Saquon of old because of injuries not because of DJ. Shep actually had career highs last season with DJ. Shep was even on a better pace this season before injury. So that leaves us with EE who had one of his best catch years last season despite a much worse Oline. I double check my stats but if you are just going by catches then maybe you are right . I usually look at yards and tds because an offense has to move the ball and score Tds. I get it what you are saying DJ needs more weapons and a couple of more years to build chemistry.
|
|
|
Post by kerryisdaman on Nov 29, 2021 11:15:42 GMT -5
OBJ never played with DJ. Saquon has not been the Saquon of old because of injuries not because of DJ. Shep actually had career highs last season with DJ. Shep was even on a better pace this season before injury. So that leaves us with EE who had one of his best catch years last season despite a much worse Oline. I double check my stats but if you are just going by catches then maybe you are right . I usually look at yards and tds because an offense has to move the ball and score Tds. I get it what you are saying DJ needs more weapons and a couple of more years to build chemistry. While weapons are great until we have an oline they are meaningless. John Ross is one of the fastest guys in the league but what good does a 4.2 40 do deep if our line cant block over 2 seconds? We need an oline lol.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2021 11:19:26 GMT -5
In the past 5 games, the D has allowed a total of 76 pts or 15.2 ppg , Our O has put up 88pts in that same 5 game span for an avg of 17.6 ppg, we're 3-2 but if we could just have been scoring an avg of 24ppg, we could've been 4-1. Since week 4, we've played 500 ball & should be 5-3 but we blew the KC game. This team is one good heavy OL draft away from being a contender imo. Fix the trenches next yr & we are back in business & DJ might actually turn out to be a good QB for this team. Even with all the injuries to our key offensive weapons & losing our best defensive player in Martinez, we could easily be a 7-4 team tied with Dallas for 1st, but we blew the Skins/Atl/KC games due to stupid bonehead penalties & dropped Ints. Fix the trenches & we will be a team to be reckoned with next yr & beyond. The Giants would be 7-3 if you were a true fan and wore your Giants jerseys!! It's all your fault now that I think of it!! Bring back Garrett!!
|
|
|
Post by Parademon1 on Nov 29, 2021 11:35:35 GMT -5
In the past 5 games, the D has allowed a total of 76 pts or 15.2 ppg , Our O has put up 88pts in that same 5 game span for an avg of 17.6 ppg, we're 3-2 but if we could just have been scoring an avg of 24ppg, we could've been 4-1. Since week 4, we've played 500 ball & should be 5-3 but we blew the KC game. This team is one good heavy OL draft away from being a contender imo. Fix the trenches next yr & we are back in business & DJ might actually turn out to be a good QB for this team. Even with all the injuries to our key offensive weapons & losing our best defensive player in Martinez, we could easily be a 7-4 team tied with Dallas for 1st, but we blew the Skins/Atl/KC games due to stupid bonehead penalties & dropped Ints. Fix the trenches & we will be a team to be reckoned with next yr & beyond. The Giants would be 7-3 if you were a true fan and wore your Giants jerseys!! It's all your fault now that I think of it!! Bring back Garrett!! You mean 7-4.
|
|
|
Post by bluebuddha on Nov 29, 2021 11:36:02 GMT -5
I double check my stats but if you are just going by catches then maybe you are right . I usually look at yards and tds because an offense has to move the ball and score Tds. I get it what you are saying DJ needs more weapons and a couple of more years to build chemistry. While weapons are great until we have an oline they are meaningless. John Ross is one of the fastest guys in the league but what good does a 4.2 40 do deep if our line cant block over 2 seconds? We need an oline lol. Agreed I go back to my prediction that DJ will be good in 2024. He is on his 3rd OC so that will take atleast a year before we know if DJ is being held back by him. It will take 2 years atleast to get the personell revamped at the skills and oline position. I think by then we would have the oline situation sorted out and replaced Shep, EE and Bark with upgrades that DJ can work with. That's if they can draft right.
|
|
|
Post by Roswell on Nov 29, 2021 11:38:35 GMT -5
In the past 5 games, the D has allowed a total of 76 pts or 15.2 ppg , Our O has put up 88pts in that same 5 game span for an avg of 17.6 ppg, we're 3-2 but if we could just have been scoring an avg of 24ppg, we could've been 4-1. Since week 4, we've played 500 ball & should be 5-3 but we blew the KC game. This team is one good heavy OL draft away from being a contender imo. Fix the trenches next yr & we are back in business & DJ might actually turn out to be a good QB for this team. Even with all the injuries to our key offensive weapons & losing our best defensive player in Martinez, we could easily be a 7-4 team tied with Dallas for 1st, but we blew the Skins/Atl/KC games due to stupid bonehead penalties & dropped Ints. Fix the trenches & we will be a team to be reckoned with next yr & beyond. I agree.
|
|
|
Post by kerryisdaman on Nov 29, 2021 12:02:11 GMT -5
While weapons are great until we have an oline they are meaningless. John Ross is one of the fastest guys in the league but what good does a 4.2 40 do deep if our line cant block over 2 seconds? We need an oline lol. Agreed I go back to my prediction that DJ will be good in 2024. He is on his 3rd OC so that will take atleast a year before we know if DJ is being held back by him. It will take 2 years atleast to get the personell revamped at the skills and oline position. I think by then we would have the oline situation sorted out and replaced Shep, EE and Bark with upgrades that DJ can work with. That's if they can draft right. Around 30 years ago Pat Riley said 'No rebounds, No rings'. That is kind of how I look at our team. No oline, No playoffs. I think DJ has another year to prove himself here. I do not know what is going on with Barkley. I know our oline is horrible at run blocking but I still hoped I would see more explosive speed on things like swing passes. He seems to be very aware that he is going to get hit. Maybe he is fearing injury?
|
|
|
Post by bluebuddha on Nov 29, 2021 14:03:34 GMT -5
Agreed I go back to my prediction that DJ will be good in 2024. He is on his 3rd OC so that will take atleast a year before we know if DJ is being held back by him. It will take 2 years atleast to get the personell revamped at the skills and oline position. I think by then we would have the oline situation sorted out and replaced Shep, EE and Bark with upgrades that DJ can work with. That's if they can draft right. Around 30 years ago Pat Riley said 'No rebounds, No rings'. That is kind of how I look at our team. No oline, No playoffs. I think DJ has another year to prove himself here. I do not know what is going on with Barkley. I know our oline is horrible at run blocking but I still hoped I would see more explosive speed on things like swing passes. He seems to be very aware that he is going to get hit. Maybe he is fearing injury? What happens if the oline is still not good enough? Wouldn't DJ deserve another year with a bad oline and maybe even a new OC. Would a new QB do any better?
|
|
|
Post by kerryisdaman on Nov 29, 2021 14:37:59 GMT -5
Around 30 years ago Pat Riley said 'No rebounds, No rings'. That is kind of how I look at our team. No oline, No playoffs. I think DJ has another year to prove himself here. I do not know what is going on with Barkley. I know our oline is horrible at run blocking but I still hoped I would see more explosive speed on things like swing passes. He seems to be very aware that he is going to get hit. Maybe he is fearing injury? Fast forward to May 2022. Do you exercise Jones' 5th year option (for 2023)? The problem with no oline is we have not been able to get a good evaluation of DJ yet. That is why we cant make that decision today so I can not fast forward. Our oline is the leagues worst imo. It was ranked 31st last season and was arguably better in some aspects last season.
|
|
|
Post by kerryisdaman on Nov 29, 2021 14:40:51 GMT -5
Around 30 years ago Pat Riley said 'No rebounds, No rings'. That is kind of how I look at our team. No oline, No playoffs. I think DJ has another year to prove himself here. I do not know what is going on with Barkley. I know our oline is horrible at run blocking but I still hoped I would see more explosive speed on things like swing passes. He seems to be very aware that he is going to get hit. Maybe he is fearing injury? What happens if the oline is still not good enough? Wouldn't DJ deserve another year with a bad oline and maybe even a new OC. Would a new QB do any better? Whoever the GM is next year will have to be brain dead not to fix the oline for next season. Its like trying to win a Nascar event with 2 blown out tires. You would have to be insane to think of lets just put a donut spare and and try to win. When I say fix the Oline I'm not only talking draft. We need for sure guys be it FA or trades as well as the draft. We have 4 guys that should not be on that line next season.
|
|
nyg2
Starter
Posts: 4,562
|
Post by nyg2 on Nov 29, 2021 14:48:37 GMT -5
Agreed I go back to my prediction that DJ will be good in 2024. You okay? His contract will either expire after the 2022 or 2023 season (depending on if they pick up his 5th year option). He'll be good where? He won't be on this team in 2024, he might not be here in 2023 if he keeps playing at the same level that he's playing now. I will give you credit for saying the quiet part out loud.
|
|
|
Post by bizcliz on Nov 29, 2021 15:09:03 GMT -5
Pedestrian. I like DJ and for some reason think he could still be the guy but he also doesn't create any big plays.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2021 15:21:20 GMT -5
The problem with no oline is we have not been able to get a good evaluation of DJ yet. That is why we cant make that decision today so I can not fast forward. Our oline is the leagues worst imo. It was ranked 31st last season and was arguably better in some aspects last season. I understand your position but that's not what I am asking. You said, "I think DJ has another year to prove himself here." So you're saying keep Jones for 2022 to prove himself. But the business conundrum the Giants are faced with is they have to make a decision about his 5th year option in May 2022. So do you exercise his 5th year option or not? Because if you want to keep him here another year, and not exercise his 5th, you've basically just made him a dead man walking. so what if he doesn't get his 5th year option!! If that means he's on a 1 year prove it deal in 2022 than that's how it should be at this point..
|
|
|
Post by bluebuddha on Nov 29, 2021 15:38:51 GMT -5
What happens if the oline is still not good enough? Wouldn't DJ deserve another year with a bad oline and maybe even a new OC. Would a new QB do any better? Whoever the GM is next year will have to be brain dead not to fix the oline for next season. Its like trying to win a Nascar event with 2 blown out tires. You would have to be insane to think of lets just put a donut spare and and try to win. When I say fix the Oline I'm not only talking draft. We need for sure guys be it FA or trades as well as the draft. We have 4 guys that should not be on that line next season. I agree with your method on fixing the oline. Go after proven assets. The problem is good FA olinman are usually coming off injury or are on thier 3rd contract. Trading is the only way I see getting a guaranteed good lineman but how much do you give up? I am glad I don't have to make these decisions.
|
|
|
Post by bluebuddha on Nov 29, 2021 15:47:24 GMT -5
Agreed I go back to my prediction that DJ will be good in 2024. You okay? His contract will either expire after the 2022 or 2023 season (depending on if they pick up his 5th year option). He'll be good where? He won't be on this team in 2024, he might not be here in 2023 if he keeps playing at the same level that he's playing now. I will give you credit for saying the quiet part out loud. It just a realistic expectation/estimation by me that if we really want DJ plus what needs to be fixed for him to succeed. This is from gathering different points poster have brought up holding DJ from his true potential. I get the contract issue but the kid hasn't been given a chance to succeed. He in the same boat as Rosen. Imagine if he had good wrs , a run game a good oline. Same with David Carr. Look at Tanehill. It's not DJ man. It's the other 9 players on field that can't do thier jobs and coaches with horrible coaching and the game planning. If we can keep DJ and Thomas and get good players and coaches everywhere else I am pretty sure we might probably have a chance at winning games eventually after DJ builds chemistry with all the new pieces.
|
|
nyg2
Starter
Posts: 4,562
|
Post by nyg2 on Nov 29, 2021 16:11:29 GMT -5
You okay? His contract will either expire after the 2022 or 2023 season (depending on if they pick up his 5th year option). He'll be good where? He won't be on this team in 2024, he might not be here in 2023 if he keeps playing at the same level that he's playing now. I will give you credit for saying the quiet part out loud. It just a realistic expectation/estimation by me that if we really want DJ plus what needs to be fixed for him to succeed. This is from gathering different points poster have brought up holding DJ from his true potential. I get the contract issue but the kid hasn't been given a chance to succeed. He in the same boat as Rosen. Imagine if he had good wrs , a run game a good oline. Same with David Carr. Look at Tanehill. It's not DJ man. It's the other 9 players on field that can't do thier jobs and coaches with horrible coaching and the game planning. If we can keep DJ and Thomas and get good players and coaches everywhere else I am pretty sure we might probably have a chance at winning games eventually after DJ builds chemistry with all the new pieces. That isn't a realistic expectation. There's a reason a QB is judged based on his team's record and that's because he has the most impact on the team. Wanting to fix the entire team as a way to elevate a subpar QB's play is illogical. Even if we manage to disregard the contract situation for a moment, a third HC wouldn't want to inherit Jones as the QB. His potential is just being a game manager. "He's in the same boat as Rosen". You've ironically just made the case for getting rid of Jones. Where's Josh Rosen now? Has he had any success after being traded by Arizona? Does Arizona regret moving on from him after 1 season?
|
|
|
Post by snyder55 on Nov 29, 2021 16:20:32 GMT -5
what was the problem with the running game, was it a lack of blocking or the RB or play calling...
|
|
|
Post by snyder55 on Nov 29, 2021 16:24:08 GMT -5
I agree. People are always on their "either or" shit but the whole offensive unit is just bad. This offense is Danny Kanell and Dave Brown kind of bad. It is.. look I get the o-line has been bad, but there's been tons of shitty offenses in the NFL over the years that had QBs throw more than 20 ****ing tds in a season and a half. This doesn't fall just one way, it never does. I agree, lots of teams in the league don't have good O lines and they seem to find a way to play decent with what they have, I'm getting a little tired of blaming the O line for our lack of production on offense, its getting old...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2021 16:25:34 GMT -5
so what if he doesn't get his 5th year option!! If that means he's on a 1 year prove it deal in 2022 than that's how it should be at this point.. Yeah, it's no sweat off the Giants back if they don't exercise his 5th. But the message you send is "we don't think you're our future franchise QB. Prove it." And of course if the Giants believe he proved it after 2022 your only options are to either franchise him or extend him. Which comes at a much greater cost... ...which of course hampers your ability to build the OL and rest of the roster which then negatively affects Jones' play. I don't see it the way you are claiming it could go. The cost for him is going to be high if you except the 5th year or not..
Too fn bad if his ego is hurt by them making him prove it in 22!!
|
|
|
Post by kerryisdaman on Nov 29, 2021 16:26:27 GMT -5
The problem with no oline is we have not been able to get a good evaluation of DJ yet. That is why we cant make that decision today so I can not fast forward. Our oline is the leagues worst imo. It was ranked 31st last season and was arguably better in some aspects last season. I understand your position but that's not what I am asking. You said, "I think DJ has another year to prove himself here." So you're saying keep Jones for 2022 to prove himself. But the business conundrum the Giants are faced with is they have to make a decision about his 5th year option in May 2022. So do you exercise his 5th year option or not? Because if you want to keep him here another year, and not exercise his 5th, you've basically just made him a dead man walking. I think we let this season play out and make that decision in May 2022 not 11/21
|
|
|
Post by snyder55 on Nov 29, 2021 16:26:41 GMT -5
If a team can't block and make no mistake they can't you can put Brady or Rodgers or Mahomes it ain't happening. Proof is last year’s SB. No OTs? No points for the Chiefs. the Chiefs O line is back on track and they still are not the same as 2019
|
|
|
Post by kerryisdaman on Nov 29, 2021 16:28:34 GMT -5
Whoever the GM is next year will have to be brain dead not to fix the oline for next season. Its like trying to win a Nascar event with 2 blown out tires. You would have to be insane to think of lets just put a donut spare and and try to win. When I say fix the Oline I'm not only talking draft. We need for sure guys be it FA or trades as well as the draft. We have 4 guys that should not be on that line next season. I agree with your method on fixing the oline. Go after proven assets. The problem is good FA olinman are usually coming off injury or are on thier 3rd contract. Trading is the only way I see getting a guaranteed good lineman but how much do you give up? I am glad I don't have to make these decisions. If it was easy DG probably would have done it already but its not impossible. We can take long term fixes or short term fixes. Just get it fixed. I remember we signed a guy with no knees under Fassel. It was only for 1-2 years but he did the job.
|
|
|
Post by snyder55 on Nov 29, 2021 16:29:27 GMT -5
Yeah I hear that. Look - End of the day, we just need to hope whoever is the new GM starts to build this team right if so who know maybe Jones pans out. Any complete rebuild that includes a new franchise qb must also include a young talented o line and playmakers on rookie deals at the same time .... This was not done even remotely correctly... So here we are Watching Lawrence also getting ruined already gives me no solace because that guy should have been a top 10 qb out of the box.. putting Lawrence on a mule team did him no favors...
|
|
|
Post by GameTime on Nov 29, 2021 16:34:00 GMT -5
Really wanted DJ to pull it all together because his skill set is really good and effective. Good arm, mostly accurate, athletic etc. Yesterday he even seemed to have good pocket awareness. His vision of the field has now become his biggest hurdle. Too bad. He just cant seem to get it all together and be consistent.
|
|
|
Post by snyder55 on Nov 29, 2021 16:34:14 GMT -5
so what is the problem with our offense, bad QB play, bad coaching or just plain low talent on the O line. This thing has been ongoing for too long for it not to identified and fixed...
|
|
|
Post by kerryisdaman on Nov 29, 2021 18:08:45 GMT -5
I think we let this season play out and make that decision in May 2022 not 11/21 So you really think games 39 through 44 (6 games total) will prove something more than games 1 through 38 (38 games total)? I do not know but I do know that it never hurts to have more information.
|
|
|
Post by rjknott on Nov 29, 2021 19:40:31 GMT -5
DJ played ok. If we had any semblance of a running game he might look better.
When the opposing team can get pressure and stuff your run, by just rushing 4 almost every play against you, your qb isn’t going to put up a great stat line
|
|
|
Post by kerryisdaman on Nov 29, 2021 21:31:31 GMT -5
I just look at Colt McCoy. He looks a lot better playing for Arizona than he looked playing for us. Still has a small arm but makes a big difference to have an actual team in front of him.
|
|