|
Post by Rangers13 on Mar 16, 2024 18:29:10 GMT -5
Thanks. People tend to look at things through their own eyes (myself included) and not the eyes of those making the decisions. The media feeds this.
For the record Lock came out and shot this story to pieces and said Jones is the starter here and his job is to back him up and push him to be his best. Lock seems like a very good choice (my bias applied since I said months ago I wanted Lock lol).
I think Lock sucks and wanted Fields instead. Speaking of Fields. Did the Bears botch the market or was there no market to begin with?
|
|
|
Post by Danke Schoen on Mar 16, 2024 18:31:50 GMT -5
I think Lock sucks and wanted Fields instead. Speaking of Fields. Did the Bears botch the market or was there no market to begin with? For a fourth I’d have gone with Fields over Lock.
|
|
|
Post by McCherry on Mar 16, 2024 18:41:33 GMT -5
I think Lock sucks and wanted Fields instead. Speaking of Fields. Did the Bears botch the market or was there no market to begin with? He's a one-year rental if you don't exercise his $25.664M 5th year option. That's the bigger issue than the trade compensation.
|
|
|
Post by TCHOF on Mar 16, 2024 19:25:47 GMT -5
Speaking of Fields. Did the Bears botch the market or was there no market to begin with? For a fourth I’d have gone with Fields over Lock. Thing with Fields is that you probably have to have a completely different offense for him
|
|
giantbob71
Special Teams
Posts: 1,150
Member is Online
|
Post by giantbob71 on Mar 16, 2024 19:45:19 GMT -5
Two questions... 1. Did you just respond to your own post? 2. In your opinion, the ONLY reason Schoen would draft a QB, would be because DJ is now an injury risk (nothing to do with production?)? OK, 3 questions...Supposing DJ plays 17 games, what's your prediction for his passing stats? I have to believe Jones' contract was indicative that if he continued on the path of 2022, that he'd be our guy for some time. And continuing on that path would mean improved numbers.
The Giants rewarded Jones with good money in exchange for the limited guarantee because they needed to see more from him. Based on what they saw last year, they must now act on that.
I think the only question that remains is what happens if Daniel has a good season? Is it so far fetched to think of him throwing for just under 4,000 yards with another 500 yards rushing, and somewhere around 35 TD's combined?[/B[
Of course he's never had those type of numbers but don't you think the Giants were hoping he'd develop into that type of QB and beyond? So let's say everything was to fall the Giants and Daniel Jones' way in 2024. Whomever we draft will then be sitting. And that's not a bad thing. And that's why I see the Giants looking for a QB they feel they can develop behind Jones.
Is it far fetched to think... Daniel Jones could stay healthy for 16 games? Yes. Over his entire career, he's averaged 208 yards passing and one passing TD per game. Over 16 games, he'd have to AVERAGE 250 and 2 TDs. Is that far fetched? Yes. Daniel Jones has rushed for 500 yards ONCE in his career. Is it far fetched to think he can do it again coming off a serious knee injury? Yes.
|
|
|
Post by Roosevelt on Mar 16, 2024 20:13:44 GMT -5
I have to believe Jones' contract was indicative that if he continued on the path of 2022, that he'd be our guy for some time. And continuing on that path would mean improved numbers.
The Giants rewarded Jones with good money in exchange for the limited guarantee because they needed to see more from him. Based on what they saw last year, they must now act on that.
I think the only question that remains is what happens if Daniel has a good season? Is it so far fetched to think of him throwing for just under 4,000 yards with another 500 yards rushing, and somewhere around 35 TD's combined?[/B[
Of course he's never had those type of numbers but don't you think the Giants were hoping he'd develop into that type of QB and beyond? So let's say everything was to fall the Giants and Daniel Jones' way in 2024. Whomever we draft will then be sitting. And that's not a bad thing. And that's why I see the Giants looking for a QB they feel they can develop behind Jones.
Is it far fetched to think... Daniel Jones could stay healthy for 16 games? Yes. Over his entire career, he's averaged 208 yards passing and one passing TD per game. Over 16 games, he'd have to AVERAGE 250 and 2 TDs. Is that far fetched? Yes. Daniel Jones has rushed for 500 yards ONCE in his career. Is it far fetched to think he can do it again coming off a serious knee injury? Yes.
So how do you reconcile the contract the Giants gave him?
|
|
|
Post by allnygin on Mar 16, 2024 20:29:24 GMT -5
It's no longer an issue of what they think DJ can be. He's an injury risk he cannot be relied on. I can't tell you what they're going to do, but if they plan on cutting jones next season (which they most likely will) having him play and risk him getting hurt absoluetly destroys they cap they would have next season. It makes sense to cut him after this season way to much in fact. You really think daboll wants to get fired with Daniel Jones being his only qb.. Sure he again may be the only option, but youd be lying to yourself if you think they're not doing their best to expedite a possible change at QB It's 100% about that.
He was an injury risk before they gave him a $40m/year contract too.
Maybe you can help refresh my memory. Was that contract before or after the second time he dealt with a neck injury and an ACL in the same season? A two year out is another way of saying they were confident how could I forget. Great, if they feel so confident in Daniel that's awesome. Better win. That bed is made time to lay in it
|
|
|
Post by allnygin on Mar 16, 2024 20:34:12 GMT -5
Is it far fetched to think... Daniel Jones could stay healthy for 16 games? Yes. Over his entire career, he's averaged 208 yards passing and one passing TD per game. Over 16 games, he'd have to AVERAGE 250 and 2 TDs. Is that far fetched? Yes. Daniel Jones has rushed for 500 yards ONCE in his career. Is it far fetched to think he can do it again coming off a serious knee injury? Yes.
So how do you reconcile the contract the Giants gave him?
Considering he suffered two majory injuries in the season after he signed the contract and hasn't lived anywhere near the contract.. i'd say incompetence with how the QB position has been handled to date. Still time to change that weather its a new QB or DJ tuns a complete 180 in his career over night next season (doubtful)
|
|
giantbob71
Special Teams
Posts: 1,150
Member is Online
|
Post by giantbob71 on Mar 16, 2024 21:49:53 GMT -5
Is it far fetched to think... Daniel Jones could stay healthy for 16 games? Yes. Over his entire career, he's averaged 208 yards passing and one passing TD per game. Over 16 games, he'd have to AVERAGE 250 and 2 TDs. Is that far fetched? Yes. Daniel Jones has rushed for 500 yards ONCE in his career. Is it far fetched to think he can do it again coming off a serious knee injury? Yes.
So how do you reconcile the contract the Giants gave him?
I can't. Schoen thought DJ could make the jump, to a real franchise QB, but show me the incredible improvement he made in 2022... 2020: 210.2 passing yards per game & .99 passing TDs per game. 2021: 220.7 passing yards per game & .91 passing TDs per game. 2022: 200.3 passing yards per game & .94 passing TDs per game. 2023: 151.5 passing yards per game & .33 passing TDs per game. DJ just ran more on 2022...but it was his 3rd best year in yards per carry. So, he didn't have career highs in passing yards per game, passing TDs per game, or rushing yards per carry in 2022. What made Schoen think he could make a big jump? I have no idea?
|
|
|
Post by Sarcasman on Mar 16, 2024 22:06:20 GMT -5
Speaking of Fields. Did the Bears botch the market or was there no market to begin with? For a fourth I’d have gone with Fields over Lock. Me too. But that's about it. He ain't the guy, he's JAG.
|
|
|
Post by Danke Schoen on Mar 16, 2024 22:32:53 GMT -5
For a fourth I’d have gone with Fields over Lock. Me too. But that's about it. He ain't the guy, he's JAG. With Lock you k own what you’re getting. Seems like he met his ceiling. With Fields there might be hope of developing him into something more.
|
|
Modog
Special Teams
Posts: 1,166
|
Post by Modog on Mar 16, 2024 22:36:55 GMT -5
For a fourth I’d have gone with Fields over Lock. Me too. But that's about it. He ain't the guy, he's JAG. I agree. He's JAG.. top bad he isn't on the Giants. Then he could have gotten 60 starts to prove himself and a 160m contract after throwing 15Tds in 17 games.
|
|
|
Post by kingb50 on Mar 16, 2024 23:15:04 GMT -5
Wtf did we get Lock, when we could’ve gotten Fields for the same price??I hope like Hell, the FO is not going into next season with DJ, Lock and Devitto.. That combo just might be the worst QB group in the NFL.
|
|
|
Post by Sarcasman on Mar 17, 2024 8:37:03 GMT -5
Me too. But that's about it. He ain't the guy, he's JAG. With Lock you k own what you’re getting. Seems like he met his ceiling. With Fields there might be hope of developing him into something more. True, there might be. It isn’t likely based on the prior three seasons but hope springs eternal.
|
|
|
Post by bluebuddha on Mar 17, 2024 9:25:23 GMT -5
So how do you reconcile the contract the Giants gave him?
I can't. Schoen thought DJ could make the jump, to a real franchise QB, but show me the incredible improvement he made in 2022... 2020: 210.2 passing yards per game & .99 passing TDs per game. 2021: 220.7 passing yards per game & .91 passing TDs per game. 2022: 200.3 passing yards per game & .94 passing TDs per game. 2023: 151.5 passing yards per game & .33 passing TDs per game. DJ just ran more on 2022...but it was his 3rd best year in yards per carry. So, he didn't have career highs in passing yards per game, passing TDs per game, or rushing yards per carry in 2022. What made Schoen think he could make a big jump? I have no idea? I think they were trying the Josh Allen plan. Layer in concepts each year to develop him. First year Rpo concepts, screens l, stacked sets, first read or run. Force defenses to defend horizontally. Second year once defense lock those down move to next phase of recognition. Force defenses to defend horizontally. With more deeps concepts with defenses focused on stopping the run and short stuff. This is where DJ struggled and his injuries didn't help. Add in the fact he has bad instincts in the pocket he couldn't buy time for those deeper throws or flat out just didn't pull the trigger. The FO didn't trust him that much as they did not give franchise QB contract but something in-between with a 2 year out. They were not expecting him to get injured. Now they are stuck with that injury clause so they have to be careful with him. They can't afford to have this QB room take up so much cap given the output from that room so far. Hopefully Schoen and company have a plan and can get the outcome he wants from the draft.
|
|
mendy
Starter
Posts: 3,891
|
Post by mendy on Mar 17, 2024 9:59:33 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Danke Schoen on Mar 17, 2024 10:22:40 GMT -5
I love how you always dismiss reporters and "sources" whenever it goes against your agenda. But once Jeff Howe reports that "league sources" say Jones is the starter... you accept it as gospel. Continue on, warrior.
|
|
|
Post by IrishMike on Mar 17, 2024 10:50:42 GMT -5
It's 100% about that.
He was an injury risk before they gave him a $40m/year contract too.
Maybe you can help refresh my memory. Was that contract before or after the second time he dealt with a neck injury and an ACL in the same season? A two year out is another way of saying they were confident how could I forget. Great, if they feel so confident in Daniel that's awesome. Better win. That bed is made time to lay in it "It's no longer an issue of what they think DJ can be".
Every decision they make is with DJ in mind. It's all about that. If they think they can win with him they make certain moves. If they don't think he can win, then they make different moves. Most of all, if they think they can win with him but are concerned about injuries then they make yet another set of moves. That last one is what it appears to be for me. No other player on this team (or any team) dictates the decisions made more than the QB.
Bringing in Lock indicates a concern about injuries. Drafting a QB in the top 6 would indicate a lack of faith in Jones the player. Drafting a WR at 6 would indicate a trust in Jones' skills.
|
|
|
Post by IrishMike on Mar 17, 2024 10:51:37 GMT -5
Lock came out and said Jones is the starter and said the conversation with the Seahawks GM wasn't about him starting here. That story was debunked already.
|
|
|
Post by Roosevelt on Mar 17, 2024 11:00:44 GMT -5
So how do you reconcile the contract the Giants gave him?
Considering he suffered two majory injuries in the season after he signed the contract and hasn't lived anywhere near the contract.. i'd say incompetence with how the QB position has been handled to date. Still time to change that weather its a new QB or DJ tuns a complete 180 in his career over night next season (doubtful) He had the knee. What else happened to him last year? I see a new QB coming. The only question will be how long he sits before he’s given the opportunity to play.
|
|
|
Post by McCherry on Mar 17, 2024 11:37:49 GMT -5
Considering he suffered two majory injuries in the season after he signed the contract and hasn't lived anywhere near the contract.. i'd say incompetence with how the QB position has been handled to date. Still time to change that weather its a new QB or DJ tuns a complete 180 in his career over night next season (doubtful) He had the knee. What else happened to him last year? I see a new QB coming. The only question will be how long he sits before he’s given the opportunity to play. Neck injury (for the second time) that caused him to miss several games before the knee injury in his return.
|
|
|
Post by allnygin on Mar 17, 2024 11:38:28 GMT -5
Considering he suffered two majory injuries in the season after he signed the contract and hasn't lived anywhere near the contract.. i'd say incompetence with how the QB position has been handled to date. Still time to change that weather its a new QB or DJ tuns a complete 180 in his career over night next season (doubtful) He had the knee. What else happened to him last year? I see a new QB coming. The only question will be how long he sits before he’s given the opportunity to play. he missed some time before the knee with a neck. www.nfl.com/news/symptoms-of-giants-qb-daniel-jones-neck-injury-includes-left-side-weakness
|
|
|
Post by Roosevelt on Mar 17, 2024 11:39:26 GMT -5
So how do you reconcile the contract the Giants gave him?
I can't. Schoen thought DJ could make the jump, to a real franchise QB, but show me the incredible improvement he made in 2022... 2020: 210.2 passing yards per game & .99 passing TDs per game. 2021: 220.7 passing yards per game & .91 passing TDs per game. 2022: 200.3 passing yards per game & .94 passing TDs per game. 2023: 151.5 passing yards per game & .33 passing TDs per game. DJ just ran more on 2022...but it was his 3rd best year in yards per carry. So, he didn't have career highs in passing yards per game, passing TDs per game, or rushing yards per carry in 2022. What made Schoen think he could make a big jump? I have no idea?
Those numbers certainly don't make a strong offensive case for Schoen/Daboll replacing Gentleman/Judge. And of course that includes the Covid season for the first-year staff in 2020.
It's troubling to see this downward trend with the team increasing it's investment is analytics and specialized coordinators.
Imagine having a director, coordinator, and analyst of Football Data and Innovation, and then a QB who cannot process a thing beyond his 1st read.
It all seems so ridiculous.
|
|
|
Post by allnygin on Mar 17, 2024 11:41:11 GMT -5
Maybe you can help refresh my memory. Was that contract before or after the second time he dealt with a neck injury and an ACL in the same season? A two year out is another way of saying they were confident how could I forget. Great, if they feel so confident in Daniel that's awesome. Better win. That bed is made time to lay in it "It's no longer an issue of what they think DJ can be".
Every decision they make is with DJ in mind. It's all about that. If they think they can win with him they make certain moves. If they don't think he can win, then they make different moves. Most of all, if they think they can win with him but are concerned about injuries then they make yet another set of moves. That last one is what it appears to be for me. No other player on this team (or any team) dictates the decisions made more than the QB.
Bringing in Lock indicates a concern about injuries. Drafting a QB in the top 6 would indicate a lack of faith in Jones the player. Drafting a WR at 6 would indicate a trust in Jones' skills.
I think they still believe in him talent wise and but I have to imagine year 6 that contract and his injury concern that its time to move on. Luckily for jones, I don't see the giants getting into position to get one of the top QBs this draft. Unless something crazy happens its going to be WR.
|
|
giantsalmon
Starter
Came over from a defunct board. Formerly LakeO Giant fan
Posts: 3,899
|
Post by giantsalmon on Mar 17, 2024 14:10:53 GMT -5
www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/what-really-sold-drew-lock-on-joining-the-giants/ar-BB1k2Myf This is accurate. You can also find the Drew Lock NYG intro presser. He specifically points to Brian Daboll and what he did with Josh Allen and Daniel last season. He is buds with Jones but damn, seems much more comfortable in front of a microphone. Yes, I do believe they told Russ Wilson he would be a back up. They may have said the same thing to Lock but I don't believe they see him the same way. As I saw Lock going into this FA period, I believe they see that he has NOT reached his full potential as an NFL QB. Schoen is now operating the way a prudent GM should. My guess is there is a specific way they will go QB-wise in the draft. Maybe theres ONE guy they would use number 6 on. If he's gone, maybe theres ONE other guy they would trade back up into round one or take in round two. If that falls through, they now can see what Lock has and gamble with playing DJ in late '24/'25 or extend Lock--who was a touted prospect coming out of college. Perhaps he was distracted dating beauty queens back then but he played like a Pro more times than not last season. He did not come to NYG to simply be the latest backup. At the very least he wants to improve his game for another shot somewhere else. If the Giants cut ties with DJ before '25 season and the draft doesnt work out (which they will not go into "hungry"), Ladies and Gentlemen, we may be looking at Drew Lock "spinning it" as the starter. Time to stop thinking Daboll is a scrub and realize NYG landed a well respected NFL mind. As for Schoen, I trust him and his core values and I want to believe this is the beginning of ownership letting the football men do their thing.
|
|
|
Post by IrishMike on Mar 17, 2024 14:46:58 GMT -5
I think they still believe in him talent wise and but I have to imagine year 6 that contract and his injury concern that its time to move on. Luckily for jones, I don't see the giants getting into position to get one of the top QBs this draft. Unless something crazy happens its going to be WR. If they believe in him talent wise then the only reason to move on would be his injury's. But then again they could be of the mindset that the historically bad OL had a lot to do with those injuries and want to protect him more, while signing a quality back up.
One thing is for sure. If they are truly done with him and like a QB in this draft then they should go get him. If not then we won't go QB. My bet based on all the evidence in front of us is that they will move forward this year with Jones and Lock at QB.
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Mar 17, 2024 17:30:52 GMT -5
The Giants sure strongly affirming to the league that they are done with Daniel Jones. Or, is this just them masterfully blowing smoke... During smoke season? Jeff Howe of The Athletic reports that like Lock, the Giants informed Wilson that Jones would remain the starter and there was no guarantee he'd receive significant playing time.
Lock, indeed, was not offered a chance to compete for the starting job, according to a league source. The Giants did sell him on the idea of working with head coach Brian Daboll, who has a quarterback-friendly system that led to Jones’ best season in 2022.
There’s a pattern here, too. The Giants had an exploratory meeting last week with Russell Wilson, and the team didn’t make any promises about playing time, according to league sources. That’s been the Giants’ approach as they’ve built toward the 2024 season with Jones as the expected starter.
link
|
|
|
Post by vinnie on Mar 17, 2024 17:50:57 GMT -5
Lock came out and said Jones is the starter and said the conversation with the Seahawks GM wasn't about him starting here. That story was debunked already. So now Lock is “the truth”? What is he supposed to say “yeah, they told me I could could be the starter”? Do you realize the shit storm that would cause? Did you also believe Daboll when he said he expected both Kafka and Wink back? Did you believe your boy Gettleman when he said he didn’t sign OBJ just to trade him? Do you believe Eli when he says he thinks DJ is a good QB? Would you believe me if I said I think Miggs isn’t a troll and is very knowledgeable about football? Man I hope you’re not this gullible.
|
|
|
Post by Roosevelt on Mar 18, 2024 9:17:20 GMT -5
Lock came out and said Jones is the starter and said the conversation with the Seahawks GM wasn't about him starting here. That story was debunked already. So now Lock is “the truth”? What is he supposed to say “yeah, they told me I could could be the starter”? Do you realize the shit storm that would cause? Did you also believe Daboll when he said he expected both Kafka and Wink back? Did you believe your boy Gettleman when he said he didn’t sign OBJ just to trade him? Do you believe Eli when he says he thinks DJ is a good QB? Would you believe me if I said I think Miggs isn’t a troll and is very knowledgeable about football? Man I hope you’re not this gullible.
Welcome to the Giants Mr. Lock. Do us a favor and carry this shit storm on your back until we decide it's okay for you to put it down.
|
|
mendy
Starter
Posts: 3,891
|
Post by mendy on Mar 18, 2024 14:06:33 GMT -5
Considering he suffered two majory injuries in the season after he signed the contract and hasn't lived anywhere near the contract.. i'd say incompetence with how the QB position has been handled to date. Still time to change that weather its a new QB or DJ tuns a complete 180 in his career over night next season (doubtful) He had the knee. What else happened to him last year? I see a new QB coming. The only question will be how long he sits before he’s given the opportunity to play. Whiplash from a sack , I know surprising right?
|
|